Radio replacement
12-16-2001, 04:52 AM
#16
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OK, Jerry. Star Trek. Whatever...
Jim:
Did I say that Blaupunkt makes the radios in Germany? Well, I never bothered about it until now that you brought it up...
On the back of my Toronto's manual it says in big letters "Made in Germany". Unlikely that they just printed the manual in Germany, and shipped it to Indonesia for packaging with the radio. Or vice versa. That would really defeat the purpose of saving cost.
Blaupunkt Toronto
You are right, though, that in order to compete with the rice radios, Blaupunkt now manufactures most or all of their units for the US market in Asia. They might just do the high end navigation systems for Europe in their factories in Germany these days.
But does that really matter? They still offer units that look better in the 928s console, and are easier to operate. Maybe not all of us care about the signal to noise ratio when the car has lousy speakers and makes a lot of noise anyway.
When I get into the 928 I want to enjoy and concentrate on the drive. Then the music is more like background noise. If I just want to move from A to B with the least effort and most comfort/luxury, I take the Saab. It is quieter, and has a nice stereo with CD changer. That stereo is supposedly japanese made, but integrated seamlessly into the dash.
Jim:
Did I say that Blaupunkt makes the radios in Germany? Well, I never bothered about it until now that you brought it up...
On the back of my Toronto's manual it says in big letters "Made in Germany". Unlikely that they just printed the manual in Germany, and shipped it to Indonesia for packaging with the radio. Or vice versa. That would really defeat the purpose of saving cost.
Blaupunkt Toronto
You are right, though, that in order to compete with the rice radios, Blaupunkt now manufactures most or all of their units for the US market in Asia. They might just do the high end navigation systems for Europe in their factories in Germany these days.
But does that really matter? They still offer units that look better in the 928s console, and are easier to operate. Maybe not all of us care about the signal to noise ratio when the car has lousy speakers and makes a lot of noise anyway.
When I get into the 928 I want to enjoy and concentrate on the drive. Then the music is more like background noise. If I just want to move from A to B with the least effort and most comfort/luxury, I take the Saab. It is quieter, and has a nice stereo with CD changer. That stereo is supposedly japanese made, but integrated seamlessly into the dash.
12-16-2001, 06:20 AM
#17
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Just today I was trying to figure out where I might integrate a sub-woofer, just not sure where I could put it where it would not overwhelm the car.
Though I don't think ditching the toolkit is prudent, I'm glad the PO did - the upolstry on it is the only patch of carpet that's not discoloured! At least of know what the rest is supposed to look like.
12-16-2001, 09:40 AM
#18
Nicole,
Yah, I can't disagree with you on the driving part of 928 ownership. Most of the time I turn the radio completely off to hear the music coming from my engine and it sounds great.
The 5.4L engine in my 928 has a very distinctive roar and I hope to be listening to that roar again very soon. That is, when Lucky finishes the engine rebuild and installation of the Electromotive Tec II engine management system.
I hope everyone has a great holiday season. I'm off on a 7 day cruise so I'll check the web-board when I get back.
Jim Nowak
Yah, I can't disagree with you on the driving part of 928 ownership. Most of the time I turn the radio completely off to hear the music coming from my engine and it sounds great.
The 5.4L engine in my 928 has a very distinctive roar and I hope to be listening to that roar again very soon. That is, when Lucky finishes the engine rebuild and installation of the Electromotive Tec II engine management system.
I hope everyone has a great holiday season. I'm off on a 7 day cruise so I'll check the web-board when I get back.
Jim Nowak
12-16-2001, 01:47 PM
#19
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Jim,
I assume you're cruising, hope you have fun. I believe I said that I had a Toronto in dash (as Nicole) - in fact, it is a Sydney. I have had a Toronto (I think in my 500SEL) and sometimes mix the names - doh...
My Sydney is also made in Germany, but I am pretty sure that Bosch (dba Blaupunkt) has factories pretty much everywhere the labor is cheap. Which definately isn't Germany. I would imagine like many things German, the top of range stuff like a Gelandewagen is screwed together in the Fatherland, and the ML320 isn't.
I would agree that Blau's current offerings leave a lot to be desired in the way of taste , but in terms of reliability they still have one of the better reps out there. If you have any friends in the car audio biz, try to get them to be open and candid about which brands get returned to the factory after 6 months most often. Also try get parts for a dead 2 year old Pioneer/Kenwood/Clarion/JVC- they do not have the best support infrastructure.
Just like cars, the more time and engineering resources you expend on graphics of jumping dolphins, the less you have available to make your product work for more than a year or two. Of course, most aftermarket radio is only designed to last a year or two - the car that it went in will be dead or sold after 12-24 months, so why bother? (Which to a certain extent, is quite valid, when you think about it...)
Like many things, if it works for YOU, then it works. If you have found the product to meet your defined criteria, then you have accomplished the mission. The best answer to any question depends on what your parameters are.
Greg
Greg
Greg
I assume you're cruising, hope you have fun. I believe I said that I had a Toronto in dash (as Nicole) - in fact, it is a Sydney. I have had a Toronto (I think in my 500SEL) and sometimes mix the names - doh...
My Sydney is also made in Germany, but I am pretty sure that Bosch (dba Blaupunkt) has factories pretty much everywhere the labor is cheap. Which definately isn't Germany. I would imagine like many things German, the top of range stuff like a Gelandewagen is screwed together in the Fatherland, and the ML320 isn't.
I would agree that Blau's current offerings leave a lot to be desired in the way of taste , but in terms of reliability they still have one of the better reps out there. If you have any friends in the car audio biz, try to get them to be open and candid about which brands get returned to the factory after 6 months most often. Also try get parts for a dead 2 year old Pioneer/Kenwood/Clarion/JVC- they do not have the best support infrastructure.
Just like cars, the more time and engineering resources you expend on graphics of jumping dolphins, the less you have available to make your product work for more than a year or two. Of course, most aftermarket radio is only designed to last a year or two - the car that it went in will be dead or sold after 12-24 months, so why bother? (Which to a certain extent, is quite valid, when you think about it...)
Like many things, if it works for YOU, then it works. If you have found the product to meet your defined criteria, then you have accomplished the mission. The best answer to any question depends on what your parameters are.
Greg
Greg
Greg
12-17-2001, 02:53 AM
#20
Drifting
Jim N.
I agree with you on the Pioneer. I got one of the lesser DEP in-dash CD models for my Ford Ranger and it sounds fantastic. So good in fact that i dont need to replace the factory speakers. 4X45 watts seems to be just right for the small space of a Ranger cab. I would nt mind putting one in my shark to replace the awful Alpine cassette unit the a PO put in eons ago. I did have a conversation with Steffan Wiess about this awhile back and he said something to the effect that the Pioneer may not suit my needs because in the shark the unit does not sit level like in my pickup. He said the Blau's are designed with this in mind. He recommended a Tokyo. Do you have problems with skipping with your Pioneer? Was it a direct fit in the existing hole with no mods?
BTW - As for Pioneer stuff from the '70s, i dont know about the car audio, but i still have and use a Pioneer reciver that my father gave me for christmas in '77 and it still works fine. I like the older stereos with the weighted tuning **** and white light dial and lighted VU meters. Mine is not a tube amp though. The tape deck he gave me about a year later didnt last as long. It crapped out in the mid 90's. It didnt stop playing, the speed controller was off and played tapes too fast. I couldnt find a qualified repair person and Pioneer wanted to much to fix it. (Big mistake in retrospect, A mistake i didnt reapeat when my $500 HI-FI Sony VCR quit, i got it fixed!)I have yet to find one that was ever as solid and well made. My Pionner 3-way floor speakers i bought at a stereo liquidator back in the mid 80's still work fine. they didnt have grills on them and cost me 25 bucks apiece. As often as i have moved them around, it amazes me that i have not ripped or damaged a woofer cone. I need a home theater system soon. I will probably go with Pioneer Premier.
John Krawczyk
1979 928 AT
60.5k Miles
Chesapeake Reg. PCA
928 OC
http://members.rennlist.com/blueshark/
I agree with you on the Pioneer. I got one of the lesser DEP in-dash CD models for my Ford Ranger and it sounds fantastic. So good in fact that i dont need to replace the factory speakers. 4X45 watts seems to be just right for the small space of a Ranger cab. I would nt mind putting one in my shark to replace the awful Alpine cassette unit the a PO put in eons ago. I did have a conversation with Steffan Wiess about this awhile back and he said something to the effect that the Pioneer may not suit my needs because in the shark the unit does not sit level like in my pickup. He said the Blau's are designed with this in mind. He recommended a Tokyo. Do you have problems with skipping with your Pioneer? Was it a direct fit in the existing hole with no mods?
BTW - As for Pioneer stuff from the '70s, i dont know about the car audio, but i still have and use a Pioneer reciver that my father gave me for christmas in '77 and it still works fine. I like the older stereos with the weighted tuning **** and white light dial and lighted VU meters. Mine is not a tube amp though. The tape deck he gave me about a year later didnt last as long. It crapped out in the mid 90's. It didnt stop playing, the speed controller was off and played tapes too fast. I couldnt find a qualified repair person and Pioneer wanted to much to fix it. (Big mistake in retrospect, A mistake i didnt reapeat when my $500 HI-FI Sony VCR quit, i got it fixed!)I have yet to find one that was ever as solid and well made. My Pionner 3-way floor speakers i bought at a stereo liquidator back in the mid 80's still work fine. they didnt have grills on them and cost me 25 bucks apiece. As often as i have moved them around, it amazes me that i have not ripped or damaged a woofer cone. I need a home theater system soon. I will probably go with Pioneer Premier.
John Krawczyk
1979 928 AT
60.5k Miles
Chesapeake Reg. PCA
928 OC
http://members.rennlist.com/blueshark/
12-17-2001, 09:23 AM
#21
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when i replaced the Kenwood that came in my 928, i purposely searched for the discontinued Toronto. got it new in box for $280 on ebay and it does exactly what i want, which is play radio and cd's, not Space Invaders on the front panel like most everything else out there...
12-18-2001, 01:26 AM
#22
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This might be something to think about when comparing "sound quality." I know a guy who does sound system installations for business and he spent a lot of years in the home theater field. He's of the opinion (I say opinion as I haven't heard a second source on this) that the really high-ened stereo systems and speakers may produce better sound, but that better quality sound isn't of a range that the human ear can detect, so it's like spending money for nothing. That doesn't detract from the build quality/features argument, though.
12-18-2001, 01:57 AM
#23
dr bob,
Why move the tweets forward?
I know the tradition has those puppies near you, but could never figure out why. Most high range cuts thru the bass with little if any loss of range and you can find some dynamite seperate tweet units. Power /signal loss over distance, particularly a few feet, should be miniscule. I'm not a big bass fan and tend to look for balance. On my home builts I went with seperate boxes with rheostats for the mid range/tweeter box and the bass box. Put caps. between the two midrange speakers in the small box. Sounds like a Primo Polk set-up. The system even in minature would not be practical in the 928.
Nicole, Lite up the flame thrower. The AIWA goes in this week-end. Yeah, if I was back in Stuttgart I could walk down the hill into Esslingen - stop for some curry/wurst und beir at the train station then hike over to the VW Hause. They had a full range of der 'Punkt's und Alpine's. I had no idea there were so many Blaupunkt models. But I am in Texas. I will only have to sand 1/16"
from the upper and lower facelip, will have more power, per channel by 1 1/2 times, anti theft, button changeable led color, and a solid factory -looking- fit and finish.
Only concern will be do I need to wire in the BIG suppressor? Easily done.
This is not a hack: Signal to noise ratio's got ridiculous all thru the 60/70/80's. If you howl at the moon you might be able to descriminate at those aspect s/n ratios. Most
folks can't, period. MY PROBLEM is Pattycakes' immaculate ALL leather interior,
the difficulty in finding speakers same of the same -size-to replace the originals.
I will go without before I hack the leather.
John S. & Pattycakes
Why move the tweets forward?
I know the tradition has those puppies near you, but could never figure out why. Most high range cuts thru the bass with little if any loss of range and you can find some dynamite seperate tweet units. Power /signal loss over distance, particularly a few feet, should be miniscule. I'm not a big bass fan and tend to look for balance. On my home builts I went with seperate boxes with rheostats for the mid range/tweeter box and the bass box. Put caps. between the two midrange speakers in the small box. Sounds like a Primo Polk set-up. The system even in minature would not be practical in the 928.
Nicole, Lite up the flame thrower. The AIWA goes in this week-end. Yeah, if I was back in Stuttgart I could walk down the hill into Esslingen - stop for some curry/wurst und beir at the train station then hike over to the VW Hause. They had a full range of der 'Punkt's und Alpine's. I had no idea there were so many Blaupunkt models. But I am in Texas. I will only have to sand 1/16"
from the upper and lower facelip, will have more power, per channel by 1 1/2 times, anti theft, button changeable led color, and a solid factory -looking- fit and finish.
Only concern will be do I need to wire in the BIG suppressor? Easily done.
This is not a hack: Signal to noise ratio's got ridiculous all thru the 60/70/80's. If you howl at the moon you might be able to descriminate at those aspect s/n ratios. Most
folks can't, period. MY PROBLEM is Pattycakes' immaculate ALL leather interior,
the difficulty in finding speakers same of the same -size-to replace the originals.
I will go without before I hack the leather.
John S. & Pattycakes
12-18-2001, 10:03 AM
#24
Three Wheelin'
My .02.
I replaced the stereo system in my '90 S4. I also chose the Blau Toronto primarily for the factory look, the variocolor feature (matched the orange of the Porsche LEDs in the instrument cluster) as well as the key card security feature.
In a moving vehicle (road, engine noise) you cannot tell the difference between two head units with slight differences in specs (THD) for example. You can tell the difference between speaker systems, and also a system with lots of clean power. That's why I went with MB Quart speakers and an Alpine amp to power them. I have received many comments on how great the stereo system sounds at any volume.
By the way, the shop that installed the system ran down the battery, jump started the car at the battery and blew the fuel injection brain. I finally got them to take responsibility and pay me for it (about $1500), but I was out time, tow and other headaches / money. My word of caution is to inform anyone working on your vehicle that if they run down the battery, do not put a battery charger on the car or jump start it from the battery. You must use the terminals in the engine compartment.
.....Cameron
I replaced the stereo system in my '90 S4. I also chose the Blau Toronto primarily for the factory look, the variocolor feature (matched the orange of the Porsche LEDs in the instrument cluster) as well as the key card security feature.
In a moving vehicle (road, engine noise) you cannot tell the difference between two head units with slight differences in specs (THD) for example. You can tell the difference between speaker systems, and also a system with lots of clean power. That's why I went with MB Quart speakers and an Alpine amp to power them. I have received many comments on how great the stereo system sounds at any volume.
By the way, the shop that installed the system ran down the battery, jump started the car at the battery and blew the fuel injection brain. I finally got them to take responsibility and pay me for it (about $1500), but I was out time, tow and other headaches / money. My word of caution is to inform anyone working on your vehicle that if they run down the battery, do not put a battery charger on the car or jump start it from the battery. You must use the terminals in the engine compartment.
.....Cameron
12-24-2001, 02:17 AM
#25
John K.,
Sorry its taken so long to get back to you, I've been on a cruise ship for the past seven days.
My Premier unit is in my Mercedes 560 SEC but the same unit should mount in the 928 without any problems. I haven't had the unit skip on me at any time even on the roughest roads in Louisiana, Alabama, and Mississippi.
I've also installed the XM radio. After installation of the XM components, I don't really listen to cd's anymore.
The satellite radio is like having an infinite variety of cd's with an infinite music format. Go with the XM components and you may not buy anymore cd's. I've read that Blaupunkt will start adding the XM capabilities to their units. So in the future, the Blau fans will not be left out of all the fun.
Jim Nowak
John, your web site has some great pictures and your sunroof delete 928 looks great.
Sorry its taken so long to get back to you, I've been on a cruise ship for the past seven days.
My Premier unit is in my Mercedes 560 SEC but the same unit should mount in the 928 without any problems. I haven't had the unit skip on me at any time even on the roughest roads in Louisiana, Alabama, and Mississippi.
I've also installed the XM radio. After installation of the XM components, I don't really listen to cd's anymore.
The satellite radio is like having an infinite variety of cd's with an infinite music format. Go with the XM components and you may not buy anymore cd's. I've read that Blaupunkt will start adding the XM capabilities to their units. So in the future, the Blau fans will not be left out of all the fun.
Jim Nowak
John, your web site has some great pictures and your sunroof delete 928 looks great.
12-29-2001, 09:36 AM
#26
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Tweeters are usually forward (as close the ear as possible) because of their narrow sound wave. As opposed to a base or subwoofer which, with a "larger" wave circle, can be placed anywhere in the vehicle/room
01-15-2002, 01:04 AM
#27
alpine has the smallest cd changer in the market. i replaced the radio an put the cd changer in the glove coparment.with new spekers and two amps under the seats the system cost $1200,i did the instalation.
87 5speed
87 5speed
01-15-2002, 02:53 AM
#28
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Someone who saw this posting had a friend who had a couple of Blaupunkts and had one that worked so... I bought it, it is one its way, will replace with same radio 
01-15-2002, 09:37 AM
#29
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Valid points on both sides of the discussion and if your more interested in esthetics and remaining true to the factories intentions, the Blau is the way to go. But If your picky about sound and truely appreciate a great (as opposed to good) listening experience, I don't believe the Blau can offer that, IMHO.
I'm in the process of installing a sound system in my shark and have been doing a ton of research. There are multitudes of forums dealing with car audio as the competition circuit for audio sound is exploding on the youth scene. I've certainly gotten an education and been shown the light (so to speak). Though I don't care for the "light organ" front ends, I too will most likely go with the Premier DEH-P730 with amps, infinity components and Eclipse sub.
I have heard many in car sound systems and would strongly disagree that you can't hear a difference in a car. Many of the higher end head units are rich with features (such as built in lp, hp x-overs and multiple high voltage pre-amp outputs and seperate eq settings by channel)that can repoduce a sound stage rivaling many home systems. Even if you don't like pumping bass (which I don't), imaging, seperation and covering the entire spectrum of audible frequencies with enough power to balance all the drivers is much easier when you can adjust each signal. The Blau's that I've seen don't offer these options. The Blaupunkt does have one of the industries best FM tuners but its CD, pre amp and amp sections are easily outdone by others.
While I want my sound system look integrated, I am more intersted in what it sounds like, and unfotunatly, that means means I'll be one of the buys sporting a light organ at the drive thru.
I'm in the process of installing a sound system in my shark and have been doing a ton of research. There are multitudes of forums dealing with car audio as the competition circuit for audio sound is exploding on the youth scene. I've certainly gotten an education and been shown the light (so to speak). Though I don't care for the "light organ" front ends, I too will most likely go with the Premier DEH-P730 with amps, infinity components and Eclipse sub.
I have heard many in car sound systems and would strongly disagree that you can't hear a difference in a car. Many of the higher end head units are rich with features (such as built in lp, hp x-overs and multiple high voltage pre-amp outputs and seperate eq settings by channel)that can repoduce a sound stage rivaling many home systems. Even if you don't like pumping bass (which I don't), imaging, seperation and covering the entire spectrum of audible frequencies with enough power to balance all the drivers is much easier when you can adjust each signal. The Blau's that I've seen don't offer these options. The Blaupunkt does have one of the industries best FM tuners but its CD, pre amp and amp sections are easily outdone by others.
While I want my sound system look integrated, I am more intersted in what it sounds like, and unfotunatly, that means means I'll be one of the buys sporting a light organ at the drive thru.
01-15-2002, 10:51 AM
#30
John V.,
I ordered the DEH-P7300 afrom SBH Enterprises and they sent me the Premier DEH-P730. I was very happy with the free upgrade and I think they are offering the same deal. Check them out!
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/sbhenter...dehincdp3.html
I ordered the DEH-P7300 afrom SBH Enterprises and they sent me the Premier DEH-P730. I was very happy with the free upgrade and I think they are offering the same deal. Check them out!
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/sbhenter...dehincdp3.html