Market for 85-86 US Injection Harnesses?
12-12-2007, 11:07 AM
#46
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
To help limit cost and supply issues i am seriously leaning toward taking harness cores and re-using JUST the 25 pin connectors, the "W" connector at the central panel, and the two pin O2/ign trigger connectors. In most cases the section of the harness where these connections are located, on the cabin side of the firewall, will be in perfect condition. I am re-using these things on the harness that i am currently working on for myself.
Last edited by 928drvr86.5; 12-12-2007 at 01:55 PM.
12-12-2007, 11:52 AM
#48
Craic Head
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Great, that would for sure help to keep the cost down on the project. I am also looking for a source for the 25 pin LH/EZF connector shells. I know Volvo also used the LH 2 and was a big end user of these connectors, but i have been unable to find a reliable source for them as of yet.
To help limit cost and supply issues i am seriously leaning toward taking harness cores and re-using the JUST the 25 pin connectors, the "W" connector at the central panel, and the two pin O2/ign trigger connectors. In most cases the section of the harness where these connections are located, on the cabin side of the firewall, will be in perfect condition. I am re-using these things on the harness that i am currently working on for myself.
To help limit cost and supply issues i am seriously leaning toward taking harness cores and re-using the JUST the 25 pin connectors, the "W" connector at the central panel, and the two pin O2/ign trigger connectors. In most cases the section of the harness where these connections are located, on the cabin side of the firewall, will be in perfect condition. I am re-using these things on the harness that i am currently working on for myself.
If it's not too bad, I wouldn't be against pre-ordering a set. I think there's definitely a market for it.
12-12-2007, 02:16 PM
#49
Burning Brakes
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Matt,
When i started this project i had hoped to keep the price significantly below what the cost of an OEM replacement harness would be (~$1100). When i started to put a list of materials together and quickly added up the costs I realized that the material costs alone would surpass what i had originally hoped to sell a harness for. The majority of the cost from this project is coming from the DIN ( Porsche correct color coded) wires and the Amp Connectors in the engine bay.
As it stands right now there is a deletion of one size of conduit from my design and the addition of it's replacement size due to space constraints at the fuel rail on cyl 1-4. This will also necessitate a revision of the fittings associated with those conduits. So i guess it is probably too early yet for an assessment of what the cost is going to be. I can say that i am still aiming to be at a point less than the OEM harness; by how much, i don't know.
When i started this project i had hoped to keep the price significantly below what the cost of an OEM replacement harness would be (~$1100). When i started to put a list of materials together and quickly added up the costs I realized that the material costs alone would surpass what i had originally hoped to sell a harness for. The majority of the cost from this project is coming from the DIN ( Porsche correct color coded) wires and the Amp Connectors in the engine bay.
As it stands right now there is a deletion of one size of conduit from my design and the addition of it's replacement size due to space constraints at the fuel rail on cyl 1-4. This will also necessitate a revision of the fittings associated with those conduits. So i guess it is probably too early yet for an assessment of what the cost is going to be. I can say that i am still aiming to be at a point less than the OEM harness; by how much, i don't know.
Jim
12-12-2007, 02:24 PM
#50
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I have two good OEM harnesses for 85-96 32v that I bought from a dismantler if anyone wants to buy one $200 EACH! I'm in Philadelphia, THEY ARE CLEAN WITH NO DAMAGE...READY TO PLUG IN!
email me at mason@masonfine.com
email me at mason@masonfine.com
01-09-2008, 11:06 PM
#53
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
OK, back at it again after the holidays! I am at the point now where i need to decide whether I should further invest my time and money in producing these harnesses. As stated earlier, I ran into space constraints on the right side (cyl 1-4) of the motor and had to select a smaller size of corrugated conduit to fit between the fuel rail and the intake runners. This problem arose just before the holiday season and i was unable to order the parts for the revision i made to the harness. I am ready to order the parts to do that now but I would like to receive feedback on how to procede.
The first choice would be to order the materials i need to finish the harness and call it good. The second choice would be to order material to finish my harness and additional materials to construct harnesses for others all at once. The Third option would be to consider ordering material and producing additional harnesses only after this one is complete. That third option would allow people to have a chance to see the finished product before making a decision. Doing it that way seems to make the most sense and would also allow a period of testing while waiting for the build supplies. The drawback would be a greater amount of time to obtain the materials, some of which come from overseas to US distributors and then to me. Ultimately, i probably wouldn't be ready to provide the harnesses before the spring driving season arrives. I know alot of people want to get this sort of thing done in the winter down time. The good news is that the harness replacement is a pretty easy job and can be done conservatively in a couple of hours.
I do know exactly what it will cost to produce these harnesses at this point and I would like to state exactly what i will need, and what you can expect from this harness.
I will need to require core harnesses so that i can harvest certain materials that are no longer available or are not cost effective to replace if the originals are in servicable condition. All of these items except one come from the harness on the cabin side of the firewall so they should, and NEED TO be in good/servicable shape. These items include:
The specific details of the harness are as follows:
And finally, i can offer these harnesses for $850, a $250 savings on the cost of a new OEM harness.
The first choice would be to order the materials i need to finish the harness and call it good. The second choice would be to order material to finish my harness and additional materials to construct harnesses for others all at once. The Third option would be to consider ordering material and producing additional harnesses only after this one is complete. That third option would allow people to have a chance to see the finished product before making a decision. Doing it that way seems to make the most sense and would also allow a period of testing while waiting for the build supplies. The drawback would be a greater amount of time to obtain the materials, some of which come from overseas to US distributors and then to me. Ultimately, i probably wouldn't be ready to provide the harnesses before the spring driving season arrives. I know alot of people want to get this sort of thing done in the winter down time. The good news is that the harness replacement is a pretty easy job and can be done conservatively in a couple of hours.
I do know exactly what it will cost to produce these harnesses at this point and I would like to state exactly what i will need, and what you can expect from this harness.
I will need to require core harnesses so that i can harvest certain materials that are no longer available or are not cost effective to replace if the originals are in servicable condition. All of these items except one come from the harness on the cabin side of the firewall so they should, and NEED TO be in good/servicable shape. These items include:
- The two 25 pin AMP connectors at the EZF & LH brains
- The green & white 1mm gage wires and two pin connector that feed the ignition triggers
- The oxygen sensor's green 1mm signal wire/plug and two pin connector
- The Central Electrical Panel, "W" connector.
- The idle adjustment, "TEST" connector from the front of the intake.
The specific details of the harness are as follows:
- All wires between the LH-EZF plugs, Injectors, Sensors, and W plug will be replaced and upgraded from .75mm to 1mm in the factory correct DIN color coding
- Every harness plug, wire, and ground ring terminal will be new on the engine side of the firewall except the test connector
- The harness loom will be constructed of Harnessflex corrugated split loom and associated T,Y, and elbow fittings with a 250 deg. F. continous duty, 300 deg. F short term rating
- To facilitate ease of installation (and removal) a 31 removable pin Deutsch plug/socket connector will be utilized where the harness passes thru the firewall.
- All wires running to the connectors on the engine side of the harness will be protected with high temp fiberglass sleeving where they break away from the main harness.
- All Amp 2, 3, 6, and the 25 pin brain connectors will utilize new pins that will be crimped and then soldered.
And finally, i can offer these harnesses for $850, a $250 savings on the cost of a new OEM harness.
Last edited by 928drvr86.5; 01-11-2008 at 02:24 PM. Reason: added info
01-12-2008, 02:11 PM
#57
Inventor
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Ben,
Thanks for the color coded pin outs! Very helpful.
You could reduce some of the wiring, if you aren't concerned about a factory exact harness.
The LH octane loop, pin 19, doesn't do anything, and it's not mentioned in the WSM. (Other OEM versions of LH2.2 use this as a coding input, IIRC.)
The diagnostic plug at the engine could just as well be next to the ECU, IMHO. The idle setting, 'B' to 'C', could be a switch, or just M/F plugs. Terminal 'A', pin 22, is a modified O2 sensor output, and could also be at the ECU. A permanent LED would be cool. (LH 2.2 O2 diagnostic LED)
The MAF adjustment (MAF pin 6), pin 14, would be much more convenient if it were a 1K pot at the ECU (combined with the LED).
Thanks for the color coded pin outs! Very helpful.
You could reduce some of the wiring, if you aren't concerned about a factory exact harness.
The LH octane loop, pin 19, doesn't do anything, and it's not mentioned in the WSM. (Other OEM versions of LH2.2 use this as a coding input, IIRC.)
The diagnostic plug at the engine could just as well be next to the ECU, IMHO. The idle setting, 'B' to 'C', could be a switch, or just M/F plugs. Terminal 'A', pin 22, is a modified O2 sensor output, and could also be at the ECU. A permanent LED would be cool. (LH 2.2 O2 diagnostic LED)
The MAF adjustment (MAF pin 6), pin 14, would be much more convenient if it were a 1K pot at the ECU (combined with the LED).
01-12-2008, 07:35 PM
#59
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Yep, that's the plan ! It would have been done already had the original conduit size i had planned to use on the cyl 1-4 leg of the harness worked the way it was intended. It's just going to take a little longer. The good news is that i have a new contact for the Harnessflex conduit, it turns out that a retired John Deere electrical engineer is now a sales rep. for Harnessflex.
01-12-2008, 07:54 PM
#60
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
All valid points Ken! I guess I should get a consensus on whether to keep the test connector in the factory position or move it next to the ECU or so some other location.
I found your CO adjustment via the LED on pin A of the test connector very interesting, what a valuable piece of information that is. That would have been nice last year when my MAF went out of tolerance. I suppose if I were to incorporate the LED in the harness it would be best to have it mounted in close proximity to the related adjustment on the MAF so it's visible during adjustment?
I have also thought about inline blade-type fuse holders for each power leg of the injectors right off of the W connector. Doing that would protect against shorts and narrow the troubleshooting to one leg or the other.
I found your CO adjustment via the LED on pin A of the test connector very interesting, what a valuable piece of information that is. That would have been nice last year when my MAF went out of tolerance. I suppose if I were to incorporate the LED in the harness it would be best to have it mounted in close proximity to the related adjustment on the MAF so it's visible during adjustment?
I have also thought about inline blade-type fuse holders for each power leg of the injectors right off of the W connector. Doing that would protect against shorts and narrow the troubleshooting to one leg or the other.