Steve J.

How does one go about learning the ropes and getting involved in road racing on a limited budget? Where/how do I start? I'm considering making my '78 5spd into a race car. (Please, no jokes)

Bernie

Anything outside of basic autocrossing is going to cost you a flippin' fortune in a 928. Even autocrossing is going to bring up $$-ching on many occasions. The costs associated with brakes, tires and other consumables will nickel and dime you to death.
My advice? Take up Karting. I have a blast Karting and it can be really expensive or inexpensive - your choice. It can be as competitive as any racing and you will luv it...

Really, I'm not joking

<img border="0" alt="[byebye]" title="" src="graemlins/wave.gif" />

Jim Nowak

Have you at least tried your local Porsche club yet? They often have racing events and auto-cross courses.

928 Maniac

I'm in the process of turning my '83 into a race car. You could buy a nice S4 for what I'm spending.

Like Bernie said, take up karting. Also look at Historic racing. The fun's the same, at a fraction of the cost. I have a little Alfa GTA. A friend gave it to me for free, I spent +/- $300 on brakes, suspension etc and went racing. Won the first race I entered against sixties Mustangs & Cobra replicas etc. Hey, I can go on forever telling you what fun it is, but I'll just sum it up like this: Low Budget = Truckloads of Fun = Historic Car Racing.

GT Jackson

You can begin to get competitive by joining your local PCA as suggested. You don't need a load of dough to participate in the many events that they offer. In many cases you just need a helmet and shoe polish.

<a href="http://www.pca.org/" target="_blank">www.pca.org/</a>

There you can meet many Porsche enthusiast who are willing to teach you much about the performance handling, setup and maintenance of your car.

Brent 89-GT

You really don't have many choices with an old 928. PCA club racing is about the only venue that has a classification for it.

I think that you could race it in the PCA stock classes on a budget. The changes you can make and still remain in a stock class are quite limited. This keeps the costs down. The 928 is one of the least expensive Porsche models to modify the suspension on actually. It comes from the factory with coil over shock units unlike many 911, 944 series cars. Mods to get coil overs are spendy by comparison.

You can always move up to the GT PCA classes too. This will get very expensive if you intend to be competitive. PCA is really the safest, least expensive way to do some racing in a street car. Carting, is cheap but in carts. SCCA stuf gets expensive and they can get brutal as well. That requires and expendable machine. Racing, even simple DE's get very expensive though.

Brent 89-GT

I was thinking about this some more today. Forgive me if I am rambling <img border="0" alt="[blabla]" title="" src="graemlins/a_smil17.gif" />

I think the PCA is a good way to do some racing. It is not necessarily a good place to start if you are seriously considering making racing a career or money maker. Just for fun, it is perfect.

The way to get started is to join PCA and try some "Driver Ed" high speed track events. Local club instructors will get you started. Many clubs offer a little more coaching as you advance. If you feel the need there are many road race schools out there, Skip Barber for instance.

Then you need to prepare the car. To race stock classes you do not need too many mods to start. To be competitive, you need a few more, mostly suspension.

Then the progression is natural from DE to a club race license. All of the particulars are on the PCA website.

There are tons of variables when it comes to costs. There are expensive tires and not so expensive tires. There are fancy enclosed trailers and those who pull a trailer behind the race car itself. Club races are scattered all over the country, just a matter of time and money to attend.

If you want to run other than PCA I might suggest a differnet car. Many times you will be classed by engine size, like PCA GT classes. The 4.5L V8 in your 928 will be woefully outclassed by more modern iron. Good luck

bcdavis

Yeah... The real question is this:

Do you want to race?

Or do you want to race your 928?

If you want to race your 928, it's going to cost you, unless you stick to autocrosses, etc...
But real roadracing is going to cost a bundle for you to be competitive.

If all you want to do, is get into some real racing, with other cars, I would definately suggest a different car. American iron, Japan import, etc... Parts are SO much cheaper and there are a lot more things available for those cars... Just buy an old 280Z for $500, put slicks on it, and a roll cage, and race it... If you crash it, buy another...

Sab

This probably sounds like a stupid question, but coming from Germany I am not familiar with autocrossing. What is it?
<img border="0" alt="[icon107]" title="" src="graemlins/icon107.gif" />
regards,
Sab.

Rich9928p

a. Take a fist full of $100 bills, pour lighter fluid on it and throw a match to it. Welcome to your first three months on the track.

b. After one year, take a cigar box of $100 bills. Repeat step a, once per year until no more $100 bills are available.

There is no "cheap" way to get into racing. Basic consumable items like tires, brakes [pads/rotors] and gas plus track fees are the floor price. Pagid Orange pads over $200 a set, DOT track tires about $600 for a set. How many sets consumed in a year depends how often you track.

Next comes repairs. If you find a nice "old" car to gut and use, it may well last one season. But the parts like clutch, transaxle, rod bearings, hoses, motor mounts, rotors are all stressed much more than easy street driving. Be prepared to either bite the bullet and replace all the major items before they fail or fix'em as they fail.

After that comes "upgrades" to be competitive. Today's cars are amazing, the engines are much smaller and have more HP/torque than our old 928s. If you want to win, performance upgrades are very expensive, just ask tuners like Devek. (BTW, 911s are light and if driven well are very competitive.... they are expensive also to track, but there are many more performance parts available.)

Brakes on early 928s just don't cut it (unless you want to replace pads every weekend and suffer brake fade). In my opinion the minimum requirement is S4 brakes. To upgrade an older 928 to S4 brakes requires suspension changes too.

I'm not saying not to do it ... I took the jump and have spent twice what I thought I'd spend [pick $10K as a good number]. Just be prepared and have a budget.

PS, if you think this is expensive, try a boat!

Bernie

Sab,
Autocrossing is course driving against the clock. Being that you are not in direct competition with other vehicles, there isn't much risk of causing yourself or your car injury. The course is usually laid out with pylons. It is still a very competitive form of racing even though you are not running side-by-side against other cars.

Cheers

Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net

I started with my '80 928S in PCA Club Racing as a G stock car on a budget. I didn't find the car competitive due to the weight/brake restrictions. I have since migrated the car to GT2S, while the car can be competitive in this class it really is a question of money spent.

If your car is mechanically sound, you might be able to go racing for $5k in tire/wheel, seat, rollcage (I would suggest a cage vs a roll bar), etc. upgrades. Then for each event you should probably plan on spending at least $1k for entry and standard wear and tear.

If you go the GT route, you should expect the upgrade costs to quickly get into the five figure range....and then you will still not be competitive with the high dollars racers.

If you want to email me offline for some more thoughts, please do. There are several 928 PCA Club racers in the Northeast, and more being built.

Brent 89-GT

Well, there you have some firsthand knowledge. I would have guessed that braking would be the major downfall of the early 928.

I always kind of thought that the best canidate would be an '86.5 if allowed to run with the rest of the '85-86 928s. It gets the larger S4 series brakes, and is allowed less wieght than actual S4 cars. Does anybody know what the official decision would be on an '86.5, F class with the 85-86s or E with the S4/GT??

SHRKBIT

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Brent 89-GT:
<strong>Does anybody know what the official decision would be on an '86.5, F class with the 85-86s or E with the S4/GT??</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">It's an '86, so it starts in F (PCA).

If you want to scare yourself, make a list of all the things you think you should do to your car to make it safer, durable, and perform better[*]. Then attach dollar figures to each item on the list.

If that doesn't scare you, prioritize your list and get crackin'.
[*] Within the class rules, of course.

Jim bailey - 928 International

with out thinking about it much .... running my old very brown 1980 in H I , improved Read nearly stock ! one year two drivers short track only drivers education .... $600 in brake pads ,$ 400 rotors , $1,400 for Victor racer tires (I still have a new set)plus killed a set of street tires . One cv , clutch hose and broken 5th gear input on transmission $1,500 value . Upgraded to S brakes $400 , fitted "new shocks " new springs , S -4 upper arms for negative camber . ripped out the steering rack bushings killed a tierod . borrowed 12 of the 15 x7 inch phone dial wheels I must use 7 inch rims ! Entry fees average $150 times ten times two for two drivers ...$3,000 . This is the lower POC short track series . To run the big tracks ... add driving suit $300 to $1,000 roll bar $500 or cage $3,000 or so ...then double the entry fees . Add in travel hotel expenses and you have the " minimum " and you are not yet racing wheel to wheel !! .