BUG ,VW Beetle - porsche 911- They're all the same
11-19-2001, 08:12 PM
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I am currently sold out but, I will get a few more in about three weeks. I do know of some people who have some now, cheap. E-mail me anytime. orchard@mtbonline.net
11-20-2001, 07:00 AM
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uh oh, you burst someone's bubble.
beetle (pre-Porsche) > 356 > 911 (all)
-> > 914 > boxster
924 (vw design) > 944 > 968
928 (the only real "clean-sheet" Porsche)
beetle (pre-Porsche) > 356 > 911 (all)
-> > 914 > boxster
924 (vw design) > 944 > 968
928 (the only real "clean-sheet" Porsche)
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11-20-2001, 07:52 AM
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There is no question at all that the 928 was a completely clean sheet design once you exclude the Mercedes auto transmission(960 part number) and all the other 901, 911, 930, 931, 944 and 964 parts used in its construction.
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Ciao,
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11-20-2001, 10:27 AM
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someone always bites...
but, since they started designing it in what, 1972-3? i doubt the inclusion of 930, 931 ('79-'83), 944 (82-89) and 964 parts in the 1978 release.
911 parts? yeah, maybe that ugly-*** steering wheel.
besides, we're not talking about parts, we're talking design. everything BUT the 928 is either a derivitive of the beetle or another vw design. "clean sheet" means it was designed completely new in-house. sure they're gonna pull from the existing parts bin, every maker does it. but the *design* was not a derivitive of any other car...
but, since they started designing it in what, 1972-3? i doubt the inclusion of 930, 931 ('79-'83), 944 (82-89) and 964 parts in the 1978 release.
911 parts? yeah, maybe that ugly-*** steering wheel.
besides, we're not talking about parts, we're talking design. everything BUT the 928 is either a derivitive of the beetle or another vw design. "clean sheet" means it was designed completely new in-house. sure they're gonna pull from the existing parts bin, every maker does it. but the *design* was not a derivitive of any other car...
11-20-2001, 11:19 AM
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It's strange and disquieting that the administrator took off that post I put up referring to a fellow who said the Porsche 928 was 'inspired' by the Pacer designer:
http://pacer.members.easyspace.com/falmost.htm
The idea of the 928 as 'inspired' by the design of the Pacer is funny enough to make you spit out your morning coffee and maybe get some on your shirt. The website is funny cause the guy sincerely believes it! And it shows how incredibly misguided and ignorant some car owners can be about their own cars.
I think 928 owners are mature enough to look at that link, or at the post, and simply laugh. Pity the Rennlist administrators didn't think their readers mature enough to laugh at it.
http://pacer.members.easyspace.com/falmost.htm
The idea of the 928 as 'inspired' by the design of the Pacer is funny enough to make you spit out your morning coffee and maybe get some on your shirt. The website is funny cause the guy sincerely believes it! And it shows how incredibly misguided and ignorant some car owners can be about their own cars.
I think 928 owners are mature enough to look at that link, or at the post, and simply laugh. Pity the Rennlist administrators didn't think their readers mature enough to laugh at it.
11-20-2001, 01:37 PM
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Just went to the Pacer site and was rewarded with some truly sick and wrong humor. I only wish he had links to his "Jerry Lewis is the greatest comedian ever" site...
The 911 is finally developed to the point where it's becoming technically a lot like the 928. It just has left to reconcile that silly legacy rear-engine config. Soon, a watercooled V8 will be on the option list, and the car itself will look (to my eye anywho) suspiciously like the very early 928 drawings. Not like the super-super Beetle that it once was. When I was a kid(early 70s), I always found that to be part of the "cool" of the 911 - that there was a guy with a factory mass producing these hopped-up-restyled-VWs. Quite frankly, I think that is still part of the reason people like them.
I didn't get interested in Porsche street cars until the 928 was introduced - sure there were a coupla fast-ish 911 things pre-930, but nothing like a Lambo, Maser, or hell, MB. Oh yeah, there's that Ferrari guy too. (No, I'm not counting the 917-xx homologation cars. Yes, if you have one you want to sell cheap, I'll take it.)
The 911 is finally developed to the point where it's becoming technically a lot like the 928. It just has left to reconcile that silly legacy rear-engine config. Soon, a watercooled V8 will be on the option list, and the car itself will look (to my eye anywho) suspiciously like the very early 928 drawings. Not like the super-super Beetle that it once was. When I was a kid(early 70s), I always found that to be part of the "cool" of the 911 - that there was a guy with a factory mass producing these hopped-up-restyled-VWs. Quite frankly, I think that is still part of the reason people like them.
I didn't get interested in Porsche street cars until the 928 was introduced - sure there were a coupla fast-ish 911 things pre-930, but nothing like a Lambo, Maser, or hell, MB. Oh yeah, there's that Ferrari guy too. (No, I'm not counting the 917-xx homologation cars. Yes, if you have one you want to sell cheap, I'll take it.)
11-20-2001, 02:22 PM
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Originally posted by David R. Hendrickson:
<STRONG>beetle (pre-Porsche) > 356 > 911 (all) -> > 914 > boxster
</STRONG>
<STRONG>beetle (pre-Porsche) > 356 > 911 (all) -> > 914 > boxster
</STRONG>
11-20-2001, 02:51 PM
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Yeah I don't understand the 911 >> 914 leap either. I think it goes like this Tabor:
Proposition: Not 928
Conclusion: Beetle lineage, not Porsche.
Proposition: 928
Conclusion: Not beetle lineage, true Porsche.
Heh heh. Sure! Ok! Whatever!
And you're right Tabor, the 924 was a Porsche project for VW. It was later bought back when VW changed direction and decided it couldn't use a sport compact.
When Porsche was declared, I think by Car and Driver or some other auto magazine, the greatest auto designer of the 20th century, it wasn't for designing the 911, or the 924, the 928 or any other Porsche...it was primarily for designing the Beetle - a car with a fairly innovative rear suspension system. Ah, but people don't like to be reminded of more humble roots do they? Still, personally, I find the VW-Audi-Porsche heritage to be quite interesting - it says the cars are not out of reach of the average person (like me
).
Um...do 928's have a rear torsion bar? Hmm. I don't know enough about the 928 to say for sure. Anyways that was one of the innovations Porsche is most famous for - numerous cars have 4's or V8's or whatever, but the torsion bar assembly was unique - it's an innovation he's noted for creating. I'd say a torsion bar suspension, in early cars, is quintessential Porsche.
I kind of agree with Tabor. All Porsche are pretty cool cars with good bang for the buck. I think the trick is to
(a) forget you're driving a Porsche, and
(b) not be too incredibly sensitive about it,
...and this way, I've found, it's much easier to get your head (
)into the car.
You know, on reinspection, that Pacer rear end could just as easily be from a 924!
Proposition: Not 928
Conclusion: Beetle lineage, not Porsche.
Proposition: 928
Conclusion: Not beetle lineage, true Porsche.
Heh heh. Sure! Ok! Whatever!
And you're right Tabor, the 924 was a Porsche project for VW. It was later bought back when VW changed direction and decided it couldn't use a sport compact.
When Porsche was declared, I think by Car and Driver or some other auto magazine, the greatest auto designer of the 20th century, it wasn't for designing the 911, or the 924, the 928 or any other Porsche...it was primarily for designing the Beetle - a car with a fairly innovative rear suspension system. Ah, but people don't like to be reminded of more humble roots do they? Still, personally, I find the VW-Audi-Porsche heritage to be quite interesting - it says the cars are not out of reach of the average person (like me
). Um...do 928's have a rear torsion bar? Hmm. I don't know enough about the 928 to say for sure. Anyways that was one of the innovations Porsche is most famous for - numerous cars have 4's or V8's or whatever, but the torsion bar assembly was unique - it's an innovation he's noted for creating. I'd say a torsion bar suspension, in early cars, is quintessential Porsche.
I kind of agree with Tabor. All Porsche are pretty cool cars with good bang for the buck. I think the trick is to
(a) forget you're driving a Porsche, and
(b) not be too incredibly sensitive about it,
...and this way, I've found, it's much easier to get your head (
)into the car.You know, on reinspection, that Pacer rear end could just as easily be from a 924!