86.5 Intake R&R Complete - My Impressions
08-13-2007, 01:04 AM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
86.5 Intake R&R Complete - My Impressions
With the help of a half-dozen other Rocky Mountain Sharksters, a lot of beer, some brats, chips, fresh homemade cookies, watermelon, sodas and water, we did a true and complete intake R&R on my car yesterday.
Here is what my problems were: rough running that I thought may be from vacuum leaks and at least one cylinder not firing from what I figured was a bad or clogged injector. This is a long-dormant car to which I had already: done TB and WP, new plugs, wires, rebuilt MAF, intalled new coils, cleaned grounds, installed new filters and drained old gas.
I replaced everything I could think of that needed replacing to make the car go fast. I know it's sacrilege to some, but I don't care a lot about under-hood aesthetics. I only care about making pretty the areas that make girls want to have sex with you. In other words, the pinstriping and the airbrushed sword-wielding Norse god with the scantily clad babe in a bikini on the quarter panels. So, no powdercoating, no polishing, no new clamps just for the shine. Only new clamps where I needed them. I did replace every rubber hose, every vacuum line and connector, injectors, gaskets, ISV, boot, rubber stand and sensor (except TPS, which I should have).
When I got all my parts, I printed out the corresponding pages in the PET for air box, vacuum, oil system, coolant system and intake system and marked on the drawings where each part I received went on the diagram by matching the P/Ns to the PET. This is pretty valuable because many boots, O-rings and hoses look similar to the untrained eye.
I started five days earlier with the disassembly. It seems daunting at first, but actually only took about five hours total over three nights to get everything but the water bridge and oil filler neck off. What was removed, in approximate order, was:
- strut bar across engine bay
- intake tubes and airbox, taking care to be gentle with the connector for the intake sensor mounted on the bottom
- MAF - again, gentle witht he connector
- intake wings. I then shop-vacced everywhere I could get to
- center intake tube (the big diamter T that feeds out to the wings). I used a long screwdriver to undo the clamp holding it to the throttle body
- fuel injector rails. I used a Ziploc baggy held under the connectors to collect the fuel. I worked the rails so the injectors came out with them - I plugged the injector holes with used rubber gloves. I then Shopvacced as much crud as I could get to.
- intake tubes, at which time I found one with a gasket, one without - I removed the rubber gloves and stuffed rags into the intakes.
I use a grabber to hold the pins when I disconnect the sensors and injectors. I still lost one pin.
At this stage, the hideous filth of the valley is mostly revealed, and I don't mean the San Fernando one. It's not that filthy. But mine was home to many mice who enjoyed two things: eating acorns and crapping. Lots of acorn shells and, well, crap were found. I was lucky, the valley was largely dry and not too oily.
The Shop-vac was used to suck up as much crud as possible. I think it is extremely important to vac frequently throughout this process because even with rags in the intake ports they are vulnerable to debris, tiny clips, nuts, washers and earrings. You know, like if your wife comes out and is so fascinated by what you're doing that she has to take a close-up look. I also photographed parts before I removed any hose or vacuum line, and if I could, reconnected then after removing parts, just for later reference.
Removing the throttle body and air guide is straightforward. Four bolts hold the body to the guide. Three rubber stands with bolts top and bottom hold the guide down. Two of mine were split, but I had replacements for both. The old ones were removed by using a Dremel and cutting wheel to cut off an edge so they were easier to unscrew from the block.
In case you find a split rubber stand and have no replacement: they are the same P/N as the rubber bumpers that support the airbox, so you can use one of those in a pinch. At least those are easier to get to to put replacements on.
Once it's off, I used a screwdriver, putty knife, lots of enginer cleaner and Simple Green to get off the hardened crud, oil, dirt and corroded magnesium off the block. A toothbrush and larger scrubbing brush came in handy, as did loads of paper towels.
Putting it all back together takes longer because of cleaning and the assembly of new parts.
Saturday, the rest of the crew came over, led by Stan (mrmerlin). I told people we'd start at 10, so he was there at 8:30. That was fine with me, and a real mark of dedication on his part. And, by the way, his perlglanz car is absolutely gorgeous.
Saturday morning we removed the oil filler. I had purchased a gasket, but it turns out the car needs an integrated baffle/gasket. It's a steel plate with the rubber gasket mounted in it. Make sure you get the right part for this. It's probably like $800 or so cause it's so pretty. We used the old baffle with a coating of silicone grease along the old gasket and some high-temp RTV gasket maker on the other side.
After I went and got Stan some breakfast, we got busy building all new fuel lines using Roger's kit. It is all the clamps, enough EFI hose and one OEM hose with the correct fittings to redo all your fuel lines. Most of the old lines have the schwage as has been discussed here before, and you will cut your fingers peeling them off. Stan cut the schwages with a dremel and I removed them with wire cutters. I then used a razor blade to cut the old lines enough to pull them off the barbs.
Making the new ones, Stan told me to push them directly on, using spit as the lube. Twisting them on can weaken the hose. We did not tighten the clamps onto the hose, waiting until they were on the motor so we could orient them correctly.
We also used engine cleaner, Simple Green and BrakeKleen to clean fuel-rails, intake tubes and the intake wings as much as possible. Then rinsed them and left them in the sun to dry until we needed them. Oh, and we had plenty of sun, since it was about 97 degrees outside.
As others arrived, Stan directed them to various tasks, such as greasing the new injectors and fitting new rubber hoses. I bought a set of new Ford Motorsport blue top 24# injectors. They are a direct fit. You do not need to swap the O-rings for the 85-86 cars. I paid $279 (+$8 shipping) for a set of eight new ones from NorthPark Lincoln/Mercury in San Antonio, and I think that's a pretty good price, better than Summit or Jegs, but you might be able to do better via eBay, etc. The 19# injectors used by the S4 and up are about $50 cheaper, but I think the O-rings need to be swapped.
Under the air guide and throttle body is the heart of the vacuum system: the seven-way splitter. This runs off the back of the throttle body in a single line which feeds to the seven-way and out to a bunch of systems I may never fully understand. I'll get to it that after I understand quarks and neutrinos. Well, mice chewed a big hold right through my seven-way, so I didn't have vacuum to any system.
I had purchased a set of vacuum lines from Mark Robinson. Very nice quality. Rather than use the seven-way splitter, he has his setup routed with the connectors in series, so instead of seven lines it is one line that splits Ts off to various connectors. The effect is largely the same, assuming no leaks, and I won't get into the pros and cons of each set up.
Things were reinstalled in the following order:
- fuel lines
- oil filler neck
- thermostat housing with thermostat inspected and cleaned
- vacuum lines routed, although not all can be fully connected until the intake is in place.
- air guide rubber stands and the air guide
- throttle body, then TPS and throttle were adjusted to trigger the TPS at WOT (mine was not clicking before adjustment)
- ISV
- hoses, hoses and more hoses - oil breathers, air and others whose jobs I can't remember - at this point you may need to temporarily disconnect other parts to fit the hoses
- intake gaskets (dry) - I used paper ones specced for an 85 because they cost 1/10th what the metal/rubber 86 ones cost
- intake pipes
- coolant temp sensor
- airbox sensor
- fuel injectors - placed in rails and then fitted as units to either side - use some pressure to get them seated.
- intake wings
Throughout the process, Stan made sure everything was either greased or anti-seized. Take the time to do this.
We did not put the air box back on so we could watch the fuel lines and injectors when we cranked the car to look for leaks. We had a fire extinguisher handy and the car was on rollers so--if there was a problem--we could shove it out onto the lawn next to my rusted-out Nova up on blocks and the old fridge we let my son play in. While Stan cranked fuel pressure up, two of us stood with lights on the engine, one with the extinguisher and the rest with their hands on the front bumper ready to roll it.
It cranked, cranked and cranked and then vrrrrroooooom. Rock steady and beautiful idle. No leaks. Since I have had this car, I have had moments of smooth idle but they never lasted long. And it was never as smooth as this. Everyone had to take a turn goosing it and listening to the instantaneous and smooth response.
I was just about jumping out of my skin with joy. When you have problems like a rough idle, your mind always wanders to the worst-case scenario and every little smell your car makes is cause for worry. But finally hearing it so healthy lifted a huge amount of worry off my brow. Hearing six other owners say, "That sounds great" and Stan say "That sounds so hot!" is very reassuring.
We watched for leaks of any kind and saw nothing. The temp gauge went to halfway and sat there, nice and steady. No warning lights. The torque tube started to whine, which is new, and the driver side exhaust manifold leaked. That I knew about and have an X-pipe to put on there as soon as I can Sawz-All off the old, rusty bolts.
Then, we drank beer until it was all gone.
If I had to do this myself, I would guess 15 hours to clean, build, replace. With the gang there, it was a solid 7 hours with a break for lunch, but it was done much better and all those extra eyes and expertise are hugely valuable when dealing with vacuum line routing, which piece to put in before which and all the BTDT experiences.
Cost was about $700 for all hoses, tubes, gaskets, ISV, boots, clamps, another $70 for the vacuum line kit and $287 for the injectors.
Now that I have the "go" part down, I have a new set of rotors, pads and sensors to work on the "stop". As for the torque tube, I'll put a ton of miles on it and drive it until I can't stand the whine anymore. Or, I'll see if it keeps whining after it gets driven. New shocks are in the future, too.
I may have forgotten some info, so comments are welcome. Thanks to: Stan, Erik, Dan, Fred, T, Joel and Richard for all the help.
Matt
Here is what my problems were: rough running that I thought may be from vacuum leaks and at least one cylinder not firing from what I figured was a bad or clogged injector. This is a long-dormant car to which I had already: done TB and WP, new plugs, wires, rebuilt MAF, intalled new coils, cleaned grounds, installed new filters and drained old gas.
I replaced everything I could think of that needed replacing to make the car go fast. I know it's sacrilege to some, but I don't care a lot about under-hood aesthetics. I only care about making pretty the areas that make girls want to have sex with you. In other words, the pinstriping and the airbrushed sword-wielding Norse god with the scantily clad babe in a bikini on the quarter panels. So, no powdercoating, no polishing, no new clamps just for the shine. Only new clamps where I needed them. I did replace every rubber hose, every vacuum line and connector, injectors, gaskets, ISV, boot, rubber stand and sensor (except TPS, which I should have).
When I got all my parts, I printed out the corresponding pages in the PET for air box, vacuum, oil system, coolant system and intake system and marked on the drawings where each part I received went on the diagram by matching the P/Ns to the PET. This is pretty valuable because many boots, O-rings and hoses look similar to the untrained eye.
I started five days earlier with the disassembly. It seems daunting at first, but actually only took about five hours total over three nights to get everything but the water bridge and oil filler neck off. What was removed, in approximate order, was:
- strut bar across engine bay
- intake tubes and airbox, taking care to be gentle with the connector for the intake sensor mounted on the bottom
- MAF - again, gentle witht he connector
- intake wings. I then shop-vacced everywhere I could get to
- center intake tube (the big diamter T that feeds out to the wings). I used a long screwdriver to undo the clamp holding it to the throttle body
- fuel injector rails. I used a Ziploc baggy held under the connectors to collect the fuel. I worked the rails so the injectors came out with them - I plugged the injector holes with used rubber gloves. I then Shopvacced as much crud as I could get to.
- intake tubes, at which time I found one with a gasket, one without - I removed the rubber gloves and stuffed rags into the intakes.
I use a grabber to hold the pins when I disconnect the sensors and injectors. I still lost one pin.
At this stage, the hideous filth of the valley is mostly revealed, and I don't mean the San Fernando one. It's not that filthy. But mine was home to many mice who enjoyed two things: eating acorns and crapping. Lots of acorn shells and, well, crap were found. I was lucky, the valley was largely dry and not too oily.
The Shop-vac was used to suck up as much crud as possible. I think it is extremely important to vac frequently throughout this process because even with rags in the intake ports they are vulnerable to debris, tiny clips, nuts, washers and earrings. You know, like if your wife comes out and is so fascinated by what you're doing that she has to take a close-up look. I also photographed parts before I removed any hose or vacuum line, and if I could, reconnected then after removing parts, just for later reference.
Removing the throttle body and air guide is straightforward. Four bolts hold the body to the guide. Three rubber stands with bolts top and bottom hold the guide down. Two of mine were split, but I had replacements for both. The old ones were removed by using a Dremel and cutting wheel to cut off an edge so they were easier to unscrew from the block.
In case you find a split rubber stand and have no replacement: they are the same P/N as the rubber bumpers that support the airbox, so you can use one of those in a pinch. At least those are easier to get to to put replacements on.
Once it's off, I used a screwdriver, putty knife, lots of enginer cleaner and Simple Green to get off the hardened crud, oil, dirt and corroded magnesium off the block. A toothbrush and larger scrubbing brush came in handy, as did loads of paper towels.
Putting it all back together takes longer because of cleaning and the assembly of new parts.
Saturday, the rest of the crew came over, led by Stan (mrmerlin). I told people we'd start at 10, so he was there at 8:30. That was fine with me, and a real mark of dedication on his part. And, by the way, his perlglanz car is absolutely gorgeous.
Saturday morning we removed the oil filler. I had purchased a gasket, but it turns out the car needs an integrated baffle/gasket. It's a steel plate with the rubber gasket mounted in it. Make sure you get the right part for this. It's probably like $800 or so cause it's so pretty. We used the old baffle with a coating of silicone grease along the old gasket and some high-temp RTV gasket maker on the other side.
After I went and got Stan some breakfast, we got busy building all new fuel lines using Roger's kit. It is all the clamps, enough EFI hose and one OEM hose with the correct fittings to redo all your fuel lines. Most of the old lines have the schwage as has been discussed here before, and you will cut your fingers peeling them off. Stan cut the schwages with a dremel and I removed them with wire cutters. I then used a razor blade to cut the old lines enough to pull them off the barbs.
Making the new ones, Stan told me to push them directly on, using spit as the lube. Twisting them on can weaken the hose. We did not tighten the clamps onto the hose, waiting until they were on the motor so we could orient them correctly.
We also used engine cleaner, Simple Green and BrakeKleen to clean fuel-rails, intake tubes and the intake wings as much as possible. Then rinsed them and left them in the sun to dry until we needed them. Oh, and we had plenty of sun, since it was about 97 degrees outside.
As others arrived, Stan directed them to various tasks, such as greasing the new injectors and fitting new rubber hoses. I bought a set of new Ford Motorsport blue top 24# injectors. They are a direct fit. You do not need to swap the O-rings for the 85-86 cars. I paid $279 (+$8 shipping) for a set of eight new ones from NorthPark Lincoln/Mercury in San Antonio, and I think that's a pretty good price, better than Summit or Jegs, but you might be able to do better via eBay, etc. The 19# injectors used by the S4 and up are about $50 cheaper, but I think the O-rings need to be swapped.
Under the air guide and throttle body is the heart of the vacuum system: the seven-way splitter. This runs off the back of the throttle body in a single line which feeds to the seven-way and out to a bunch of systems I may never fully understand. I'll get to it that after I understand quarks and neutrinos. Well, mice chewed a big hold right through my seven-way, so I didn't have vacuum to any system.
I had purchased a set of vacuum lines from Mark Robinson. Very nice quality. Rather than use the seven-way splitter, he has his setup routed with the connectors in series, so instead of seven lines it is one line that splits Ts off to various connectors. The effect is largely the same, assuming no leaks, and I won't get into the pros and cons of each set up.
Things were reinstalled in the following order:
- fuel lines
- oil filler neck
- thermostat housing with thermostat inspected and cleaned
- vacuum lines routed, although not all can be fully connected until the intake is in place.
- air guide rubber stands and the air guide
- throttle body, then TPS and throttle were adjusted to trigger the TPS at WOT (mine was not clicking before adjustment)
- ISV
- hoses, hoses and more hoses - oil breathers, air and others whose jobs I can't remember - at this point you may need to temporarily disconnect other parts to fit the hoses
- intake gaskets (dry) - I used paper ones specced for an 85 because they cost 1/10th what the metal/rubber 86 ones cost
- intake pipes
- coolant temp sensor
- airbox sensor
- fuel injectors - placed in rails and then fitted as units to either side - use some pressure to get them seated.
- intake wings
Throughout the process, Stan made sure everything was either greased or anti-seized. Take the time to do this.
We did not put the air box back on so we could watch the fuel lines and injectors when we cranked the car to look for leaks. We had a fire extinguisher handy and the car was on rollers so--if there was a problem--we could shove it out onto the lawn next to my rusted-out Nova up on blocks and the old fridge we let my son play in. While Stan cranked fuel pressure up, two of us stood with lights on the engine, one with the extinguisher and the rest with their hands on the front bumper ready to roll it.
It cranked, cranked and cranked and then vrrrrroooooom. Rock steady and beautiful idle. No leaks. Since I have had this car, I have had moments of smooth idle but they never lasted long. And it was never as smooth as this. Everyone had to take a turn goosing it and listening to the instantaneous and smooth response.
I was just about jumping out of my skin with joy. When you have problems like a rough idle, your mind always wanders to the worst-case scenario and every little smell your car makes is cause for worry. But finally hearing it so healthy lifted a huge amount of worry off my brow. Hearing six other owners say, "That sounds great" and Stan say "That sounds so hot!" is very reassuring.
We watched for leaks of any kind and saw nothing. The temp gauge went to halfway and sat there, nice and steady. No warning lights. The torque tube started to whine, which is new, and the driver side exhaust manifold leaked. That I knew about and have an X-pipe to put on there as soon as I can Sawz-All off the old, rusty bolts.
Then, we drank beer until it was all gone.
If I had to do this myself, I would guess 15 hours to clean, build, replace. With the gang there, it was a solid 7 hours with a break for lunch, but it was done much better and all those extra eyes and expertise are hugely valuable when dealing with vacuum line routing, which piece to put in before which and all the BTDT experiences.
Cost was about $700 for all hoses, tubes, gaskets, ISV, boots, clamps, another $70 for the vacuum line kit and $287 for the injectors.
Now that I have the "go" part down, I have a new set of rotors, pads and sensors to work on the "stop". As for the torque tube, I'll put a ton of miles on it and drive it until I can't stand the whine anymore. Or, I'll see if it keeps whining after it gets driven. New shocks are in the future, too.
I may have forgotten some info, so comments are welcome. Thanks to: Stan, Erik, Dan, Fred, T, Joel and Richard for all the help.
Matt
Last edited by leperboy; 08-13-2007 at 01:39 AM.
08-13-2007, 01:26 AM
#2
Under the Lift
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
I can't think of a better way to spend a Saturday. Well, maybe I can, but if it got you a smooth idle, it sounds like was well worth it. Good write-up.
08-13-2007, 02:14 AM
#3
Team Owner
I think Matt did a great job of laying everything out and buying just about every part he could to do this job , and actually it really is the best way as the car is now ready for many years of service without worry about short term future failures, He had all of the correct O rings, gaskets, injectors, fittings, hoses, ready. The manifold parts cleaned and labeled and bagged so it was easy to lay out the parts assortment and find the correct parts and assemble everything.
This engine runs so smooth and the throttle response is incredible, there were 6 guys all waiting in line to twist that throttle just to feel and hear the roar of the 5.0, it was like an electric motor in instantanious rev if that makes sense. This was a fun afternoon to do a bit of chatting and meeting new faces, and have a common goal, the 928 group out here in Denver is a great bunch of people, I am very happy to to be a part of this group, most everyone had some part in this project and everything was done extremely well.
Once again, I must commend Matt for being thorough and meticulous, not to mention the wonderful smell of chocolate chip cookies that wafted through the garage as the pieces flew onto the engine, (Matts wife is a great cook). i wish others could see how this motor responds to throttle input, it is truly amazing. Thanks Rocky Mountain Sharks. ............Stan
This engine runs so smooth and the throttle response is incredible, there were 6 guys all waiting in line to twist that throttle just to feel and hear the roar of the 5.0, it was like an electric motor in instantanious rev if that makes sense. This was a fun afternoon to do a bit of chatting and meeting new faces, and have a common goal, the 928 group out here in Denver is a great bunch of people, I am very happy to to be a part of this group, most everyone had some part in this project and everything was done extremely well.
Once again, I must commend Matt for being thorough and meticulous, not to mention the wonderful smell of chocolate chip cookies that wafted through the garage as the pieces flew onto the engine, (Matts wife is a great cook). i wish others could see how this motor responds to throttle input, it is truly amazing. Thanks Rocky Mountain Sharks. ............Stan
08-25-2007, 12:09 AM
#6
Defending the Border
Rennlist Member
Rest In Peace
Rennlist Member
Rest In Peace
Nice work Matt, and thanks for the tips!
My project is a '90 that is in pretty good shape but I've found some stuff that would easily cause a screwy idle.
My project is a '90 that is in pretty good shape but I've found some stuff that would easily cause a screwy idle.
11-05-2007, 12:14 PM
#7
I'm in the midst of RRing injectors and refreshing hoses under my 86.5 intake. In the process of removing the intake, I resorted to using a 1/2" pry-bar to loosen some of the intake bolts only because the limited access didn't allow for a wratchet to operate in the confined space between the bolt head and the overhanging tube. I expect to have the same access problem with about 3 bolts when I start to torque the bolts during replacement. How did you manage to apply proper torque to all the bolts, with such limited clearance between some of the bolts and the tubes hanging over them?
Thanks
Mike
Thanks
Mike
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11-05-2007, 01:13 PM
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06-02-2009, 01:09 PM
#12
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What a great write-up. I'm planning on doing the same. Are these the injectors that work on the 86.5 928s? http://www.blueovalindustries.com/pr...p?pid=99013344
06-02-2009, 02:14 PM
#13
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
What a great write-up. I'm planning on doing the same. Are these the injectors that work on the 86.5 928s? http://www.blueovalindustries.com/pr...p?pid=99013344
Matt
12-28-2019, 01:54 PM
#15
Rennlist Member
One thing for newbies doing their first intake refresh: I took 3 days to make sure every single hose clamp under the intakes was properly tightened...I"ve never been down that deep before so I couldn't go on "automatic" and I was NOT going down there again. on the second day I found a loose clamp from where I fitted one end of the hose...tighted the other end and forgot to go back....
Seriously...take a few days and go through each clamp 3 times...you do NOT want a loose clamp requiring to rip an intake off the car to get to. there's a lot of them and they aren't always obvious to see if you aren't paying attention....first timers..INVEST extra time here...go through and basically pretend you are putting everything in for the first time and check every single clamp..I did it 3x. So glad I took the extra time.
Also, upgrading to the high end intake gaskets and having the intakes planed will go a long way towards preventing an intake leak (ask Scott Yoo); so give that consideration as well.
BTW good luck finding a machine shop that even knows what you are talking about, let alone are willing to grind away on magnesium parts they've probably never seen in their life. Don't do it yourself unless you are looking forward to uglying up your face and everything else within blasting distance. Magnesium is highly/dangerously reactive with oxygen...chip a small piece off and light it...it explodes. Fun choice for an intake huh
Seriously...take a few days and go through each clamp 3 times...you do NOT want a loose clamp requiring to rip an intake off the car to get to. there's a lot of them and they aren't always obvious to see if you aren't paying attention....first timers..INVEST extra time here...go through and basically pretend you are putting everything in for the first time and check every single clamp..I did it 3x. So glad I took the extra time.
Also, upgrading to the high end intake gaskets and having the intakes planed will go a long way towards preventing an intake leak (ask Scott Yoo); so give that consideration as well.
BTW good luck finding a machine shop that even knows what you are talking about, let alone are willing to grind away on magnesium parts they've probably never seen in their life. Don't do it yourself unless you are looking forward to uglying up your face and everything else within blasting distance. Magnesium is highly/dangerously reactive with oxygen...chip a small piece off and light it...it explodes. Fun choice for an intake huh