mnotz

How in the world are you picking up on that stuff??? Pretty cool tho...well...hot!

Charley B

I'm pretty sure I can see Ed hughes Avatar in there.

ROG100

"I'm pretty sure I can see Ed hughes Avatar in there."
LMAO

Shark Attack

I dunno, they just stood right out at me. it was the second thing I saw after the point of the picture. Im not into that stuff either.

I agree I think i see EH's avatar too

Imo000

FLOUR?!?!?! No No No...... baking soda is what you need.
Flour, under the right conditions (air to particle ratio), can explode. Very similar to dust explosions. Things like this used to happen in flour mills years ago.
My father used to be a fire/safety engineer at a large flour mill and remember him telling me storries of dust/flour explosion that blew out all the windows of a floor.

tommytomaso

when i was first looking for a 928 (about 8-9 yrs ago) i ran into many that had fire damage.....all were Autos, i was told by an "expert" that they were caused by trany fluid. Autos most likely stood out because thats what i was looking for. I started to think it might have something to do with costly repairs, and a quick out with the bank...if you know what i mean.
But i see thier could be way more to this then what i thought, having been under the shark enough time lately, all them lines are OLD and a pin hole would SPRAY gas not drip it...i can see the DANGER!!!
Now how hard is it to change all the lines?...and do we need to change the vapor lines?..return lines?.....just an estimate and complexity scale.
is some one willing to do a little write up of the things needed like tools , parts and labor allocation...hint hint = )
One other thing..ALL the sharks that iv see with fire damage are of s4 and newer vintage...(the black OB pictured is an interior fire)is this a more common problem then with older sharks?

Courtshark

Now that I look more closely... if you look just inside the window frame of the passenger door, right above the side view mirror, you'll see yet another face; less menacing looking though. Weird.

heinrich

I called George, it wasn't him.

Tails

Flott Leben.

Good question, I have not tried to purchase OEM or Porsche replacements, I have only been watching what I consider a serious problem that has developed over the last few years with 928s, as they get older, which as a consequence is usually a fire and a Total Constructive Loss (TCL) of the vehicles involved. This has been very well portrayed by the photographs in this thread. As indicated by Roger it would appear that only the fuel rail cross connection pipe is an original Porsche supply. I have read of an incident where this poloymide covered rubber fuel rail cross connection pipe has failed and caused an engine compartment fire. Reference to 1990 928 S4 fire in Australia at http://www.landsharkoz.com/tt/ttpf.htm

Most of my message, that you have refer to, was taken directly from Porsche’s “ Service Technik” publications, as noted in my previous post, when changes have been made to the S4s and GTs and subsequently these have carried into the GTSs. The description includes the German/English grammarmatics from these manuals. (note: I’m not having a shot at the German /English, as I cannot speak German and if I used my Japanese it would not be understood my the majority of those who participate in this forum).

In addition I included some particulars on polyomide that I sourced via Google to try and understand the basis for Porsche’s development and use of these fuel hoses.

Rodger

Thanks for your reply and the points that you have raised regarding my words. I won’t start my answer to you by using the favoured legal reply as a lead in of “with the greatest respect” as I just an engineer seeking some more knowledge and understanding of a potentially dangerous problem in our cars.

Unfortunately I travel quite a lot and cannot participate on the forum continuously as I would like and I do miss out on many “threads”, so my submission was only to address a known problem and my attempt to get to get a better understanding to prevent it happen to my own 928 and of course others 928 owners. The sourcing and the dissemination/propagation of knowledge is my only point here as I’m becoming more uncomfortable with this problem.

I have personally been involved in a few fires, I have witnessed first hand people have been set alight and ended up with over 95% burns. I was first person on the scene as they came through the door fully alight. I was not able to douse the flames, as it was in a non commissioned factory in Asia and no fire fighting equipment was available. Unfortunately 3 subsequently died and I had personally knew one of them. In addition I have seen the result of self propagated fuel fires from an uncontrolled high pressure fuel source, hence my interest in this matter with our 928s.

I have also seen the effects of heat and ozone on the rubber sensor connections in the engine bays of the 928s.

I’m usually associate with much larger engines, however, I have also been experience with engines down to automotive sizes as well. They all operate on the same principles, only the size is different. I have attended engines buildings, shop and engine acceptance trials in Aioi in Japan and Wartsila in Finland to mention a few:

As an example of the size I mention I enclose the web address of the latest world’s largest internal combustion engine, the Wartsila-Sulzer RTA96-C turbocharged two-stroke diesel engine, as it is the most powerful and most efficient prime-mover in the world today. The Aioi Works of Japan's Diesel United, Ltd built the first engines and is where the pictures were taken as shown on the following web site.

If you are interested please go to: http://people.bath.ac.uk/ccsshb/12cyl/

This engine is available in 6 through 14 cylinder versions, and all are inline engines with common rail electronically controlled fuel injection, the same principle as used in the later model 928s.

The cylinder bore is just under 38" and the stroke is just over 98". Each cylinder displaces 111,143 cubic inches (1820 liters) and produces 7780 horsepower. Total displacement comes out to 1,556,002 cubic inches (25,480 liters) for the fourteen cylinder version.

Now this is an engine that will propel a ship around the world’s oceans by controlled explosions at well over 25 knots.

Some facts on the 14 cylinder version:
Total engine weight: 2300 tons (The crankshaft alone weighs 300 tons.)
Length: 89 feet
Height: 44 feet
Maximum power: 108,920 hp at 102 rpm
Maximum torque: 5,608,312 lb/ft at 102rpm

The fuel pipe on these engine are fully enclosed inside a casing in case of fuel leakage from failed fuel pipes. I hope you find it interesting and you can imagine a fuel oil fed fire from one of these engines. I have seen the after effects in ship’s engine rooms of such fires.

I now have to start some R & M work on my 4.8 litre turbo charged intercooled diesel engine in my motorhome, before we set off on our next 3 month trip. Incidentilly I have to rectifty split fuel line hose where they fit onto the sediment filter and these hoses are only 3 years old.

Tails 1990 928 S4 Auto.

MGW-Fla

So......... to sum this up, if we use standard automotive EFI rated hose & clamps as replacement for our 928 fuel hoses, we should be good to go yes??

MGW-Fla

...and get the Halon extinguishers too!

Imo000

YES! Either but the kit or buy the parts for it at your local parts store. Just make sure the hose and the clamps are for Fuel Injection application and not just regular fuel hose and worm gear clamps.

MGW-Fla

When I replaced my two rear fuel hoses on my '85, the first time NAPA just sold me non EFI hose! Only when I got home did I realize & had to go back to get the EFI rated hose. I told them what I needed & what it was for, guess they didn't listen & I should have checked before I left the store. Total cost for two 9" sections of EFI hose & a pair of EFI clamps was less than $16. I reused two of my existing EFI clamps.

Alan

Mel - If you do get the Halon extinguisher - I recommend you at least do a dry run practice of how you would use it... if you half-pop the hood - can you get the nozzle in there? if not what other plan can you use.

My extinguisher has a non-stock flex nozzle I added - so even if I didn't have my "plumbing" I can more easly feed it into awkward spots (say on other folks cars).

Consider the same for a Central Electric panel fire - can you actually get the nozzle to point where you want it to go to get halon to the source of the fire...?

You'd be surprised how many halon extinguishers have very short, non-articulating wide funnel shape nozzles... Some of these unit's nozzles are too big to fit unless the hood is opened wide.

So plan ahead!

Alan