928ntslow

Alan, Would you mind sharing your set up? I would bet that several of us would be interested.

If it is not an eye sore and not any serious weight, which it shouldn't be on either account, it's almost something that should be "kit' ed" and sold to the community.

I have thought about something like this for a while, but haven't done it. I'm with you, the last thing I want to see is my GTS in flames!

Flott Leben

I'm with you, Dave. That picture is scary. Not only for the fire but the way it has engulfed the interior cabin. Roger's pics, although sad, look like a typical engine fire and something you could jump out of quickly, unharmed. Your picture, Dave . . . if the driver or passenger heisitated to get out . . . toast.

ew928

How much is halon/halotron heavier than air?
Would one need nozzles along the hood to envelope the engine compartment?
Sorta like windshield washer nozzles but upside down on the inside of the hood.

Time to go hunting for a nice halotron unit. . .
Wonder how caked my crusty old KMart dry chemical extinguisher is?

mnotz

Roger (ROG100),

any news on the kit for older OB's? Not that I am urgently needing it right now, but once you have them available I will certainly order a kit...

BTW, I am glad you could help out my shark's PO Bill with the clutch cover last week! I gave him mine in the mean time so he could get on the track ;-)

Thanks,
Marcus.

Alan

Keith

here : https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...eferrerid=6055


Alan

Normy

Rent a Piper PA-28-161 some time; you'll be advised by the 22 year old flight instructor exactly where the exit is, and how it requires the handle down by the door and and the clip up near the roof.

-Also, he will tell you about the Halon 1211 fire extinguisher bolted to the floor....


Nice. Halon 1211 is a chemical that absorbs oxygen. And it absorbs oxygen extremely efficiently; that means that it is very similar to carbon monoxide. So here we are, flying in a single engine Piper 1000 feet above the ground and not only do we have a fire burning us and our pilot, but the only item we have against this fire is a fire extinguisher that is going to spew out chemicals which are literally going to suck the oxygen from our lungs.

=======

It's really not as bad as I've portrayed above. Light aircraft are full of holes, and you cannot be suffocated by being sealed into one of these airplanes. But the halon fire extinguishers that are bolted to the floors of these airplanes are not much help either, since they are likely to be used with the windows or vents sealed closed and too much air.

Good luck!

SharkSkin

That's a sweet setup, Alan!

Fabio421

Just carry a bag of all purpose flour. You'll be fine.

Alan

Don't get the exploding type of flour!!!!

Alan

Tails

928 Fuel Hoses

I have undertaken some research into the question of the EFI fuel hoses on the 928s.

WSMs and the 1987 & 1888 928 S4 Service Information Technik (publication WKD 493.421 & 494 421

Initially it appears that the original fuel hoses were rubber and it was noted that a modified fuel pressure regulator with an ozone-proof rubber hose was introduced during the 1987 model year.

Fuel Hoses Made of Plastic (Polyamide)

Fuel hoses are components, which are subjected to considerable loads due to pressure. Temperature and the gasoline itself.

Rubber hoses in eight cylinder engine cars were replaced by rubber-lined, polyamide pipes in the course of the 1988 model year already, in order to cope with these conditions even better and improve the service life. (Polyamide is a plastic, which is produced from carbons, phenol and nitrogen).

Rubber-lined polyamide pipes, however, can no longer be handled in the same manner as rubber hoses.

Handling Polyamide Pipes:

1. Polymaide pipes may not be bent. Bending the pipes could damage the parts permanently.
2. Polyamide pipes may not be clamped shut neither for troubleshooting the fuel system nor for replacement of components. Clamping would damage a polyamide pipe permanently.
3. Connectors are pressed in with a great amount of force in the production of polyamide pipes. Repairing these parts is not possible. In such case it will always be necessary to replace the entire hose with connectors. Sleeves, which are installed loose in some cases, are used on connectors only as stops

Rubber-lined polyamide pipes can be recognized on the outside by the loose-fitting or missing sleeves.

The fuel hose on the intake side of the fuel pump to the fuel tank is not included in the conversion to the polyamide pipes, so that this hose may be clamped for replacement of the fuel filter or removal of the fuel tank.

General information


Nylon (Polyamide) - The generic name for all long-chain fiber-forming polyamides with recurring amide groups. Polyamides (Nylon) comprise the largest family of engineering plastics with a very wide range of applications. Polyamides (Nylons) are often formed into fibers and are used for monofilaments and yarns. Characteristically polyamides (nylons) are very resistant to wear and abrasion, have good mechanical properties even at elevated temperatures, have low permeability to gases and have good chemical resistance.

Polyamide applications: Full list of applications including; Automotive Applications, Electrical/Electronic Applications, Industrial Applications,

Polyamide features:
Full list of features including; Heat Stabilized, Lubricated, Chemical Resistance, Good, Flame Retardant...

We know as 928 users that in the engine compartment of our vehicles we have high temperature, high fuel pump pressure and gasoline, which can effect rubber components.

We can all agree to the high temperature, however, has anyone actually undertaken temperature reading in the engine bay whilst motoring?

The fuel pressures are quoted as :
Without vacuum: 3.8 + or - 0.2 bar
With vacuum 3.3 + or – 0.2 bar

In MY 1988 an intank fuel pump was installed in addition to the external fuel pump, in order to guarantee the correct delivery rate for all temperature ranges of the gasoline.

In addition we also have ozone generated from the very high voltage discharge ignition system, which can effect the rubber fuel hoses, so you can understand why the polyamide was introduce.

The question I ask is what MY 928s have actually caught fire or have had fuel hose failures. Does anyone know what hoses actually failed, were they the hoses connecting the fuel regulators/dampers and/or the two fuel rails and on what MY did the actual failures occur as there appears to be three types of fuel hoses used:
1. Rubber hose
2. Ozone proof rubber hoses
3. Polyamide covered rubber hoses?

Answers to these questions will allow us to undertake a systematic approach to determine whether it is by MY or hose type and whether all 928s effected.

Tails 1990 928 S4 Auto

3000teeth

I should have used CARFAX!

928ntslow

Alan, very cool my friend! Well executed! Thank you!

Flott Leben

So, Tails: If one was to buy OEM/Porsche genuine replacement engine comparment fuel hoses today for a 1987 model would they be rubber or polyamide? What is used as the industry standard for EFI hose today, rubber or polyamide??

ROG100

Tails,
With respect a little late in the day as this has already been discussed and the conclusions stated reached already. 8>)
EFI hose is the way to go and meets and exceeds all requirements as already discussed elsewhere.
The only plastic hose that I have seen of the 4 we are discussing is the U hose and that was purpose made to accomadate the tight bend rad needed when the throttle linkage was added. Do you have other plastic hoses on your car? This was introduced in 87 and is NLA. When an old one is examined it is already collapsing and in certain cases cracked depending on age.
The preformed U hose I supply meets the bend rad requirements and is EFI rated and used on a current vehicle - so modern technology in use. The added EFI clamps are an extra saftey feature over and above what Porsche used and supplied.
The actual conditions on our stock cars are very low (56psi approx) with respect to pressure. That does not mean that EFI hoses are suitable for modified cars with higher fuel pressures. EFI hose is rated to 125 psi working and 900 burst which should be ample for our stock needs.
Of the fire damaged vehicles I have seen (I have two in my yard) the U hose appears to be the one that ruptchured as the ceter of the fire is in that area. Always difficuly to tell but definatly one of the 3 in that area.
I would also be interested in temperature in the area at the back of the inlet manifold as this would enable us to establish a time frame for heat aging of the hoses and maybe a recommended change cycle for the new EFI hoses.

Shark Attack

look at those faces