Maximizing HP on a S2
01-07-2003, 01:13 AM
#1
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Maximizing HP on a S2
I know there has been alot of discussion regarding more HP. Without, please I repeat, without adding Nitros, Turbo or supercharger, how can I maximize the HP in my S2.
Basically I want to go as quick and fast as my shark can go; with what she has already.
Heads Up -
My kick down switch has been by passed
MSDS Headers in place
Manual fan removed
TV cable has been adjusted for longer runs in first.
Chip set N/A
I'm drawing a blank
TIA
Basically I want to go as quick and fast as my shark can go; with what she has already.
Heads Up -
My kick down switch has been by passed
MSDS Headers in place
Manual fan removed
TV cable has been adjusted for longer runs in first.
Chip set N/A
I'm drawing a blank
TIA
01-07-2003, 02:00 AM
#2
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...and your timing is set a few degrees more advanced than spec???
Set it with the best gas available to you; no knock, please.
Find a dyno guy nearby & tweak your mixture, too.
Set it with the best gas available to you; no knock, please.
Find a dyno guy nearby & tweak your mixture, too.
01-07-2003, 08:04 AM
#4
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Lots of stickers?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">GOOD ONE! How bout....Only Drive Downhill...Tailwind...
01-07-2003, 11:13 AM
#5
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Drewster, I've looked into this a bit recently, so I'll share my thoughts. I have an '85 S2 5 Speed.
Really, there are three main methods to making these cars faster. More displacement, forced induction, or nitrous oxide. Each has strengths and weaknesses.
More displacement is by far the best way to go...however, you can only take an 2 valve engine to 6.0 liters, and that would gain you about 75-100 hp or so. At a cost possibly nearing $8000...
Nitrous oxide is just the opposite. A well set up nitrous kit could add 150 hp and cost about $1000-$1500, but now you have to deal with filling the bottle up [hassle- it goes quick], and this stuff, if not done right, can smoke a motor in microseconds.
[I have hillbilly ancestors, so I am perfectly within my rights to point out that NOS has a high-redneck factor as well...]
And then there's that F.A.S.T kit for S2's. I keep thinking about how easy it would be to bolt on a blower and go scare myself silly! I guess this last seems to be the most reasonable method.
-However, from hanging with the Import crowd here in Orlando from time to time, I've noticed that decent gains can be had on the cheap just by doing things like getting a good exhaust and a low restriction intake, then match porting the head to the manifolds. Most people add a chip at that point, but I don't think one is made for the S2 [which is why it is impossible to advance the timing for a few more ponies...] so your out of luck there.
Well, the final point I'll make is sure to be controversial but you cannot fault my logic. My S2 can hit 106 mph in a quarter mile with no other mods than a Borla exhaust. And it can cover that quarter in 13.8 seconds. How?
5 speed transmission!
-Consider pulling the "slush pump" the next time it gives you some hassle and get a decent manual tranny with the 2.73 rear end. I've driven automatic 928's and they are nice cars...but they are not the hooligan that the 5 speed cars are!
Good luck-
Normy!
Really, there are three main methods to making these cars faster. More displacement, forced induction, or nitrous oxide. Each has strengths and weaknesses.
More displacement is by far the best way to go...however, you can only take an 2 valve engine to 6.0 liters, and that would gain you about 75-100 hp or so. At a cost possibly nearing $8000...
Nitrous oxide is just the opposite. A well set up nitrous kit could add 150 hp and cost about $1000-$1500, but now you have to deal with filling the bottle up [hassle- it goes quick], and this stuff, if not done right, can smoke a motor in microseconds.
[I have hillbilly ancestors, so I am perfectly within my rights to point out that NOS has a high-redneck factor as well...]
And then there's that F.A.S.T kit for S2's. I keep thinking about how easy it would be to bolt on a blower and go scare myself silly! I guess this last seems to be the most reasonable method.
-However, from hanging with the Import crowd here in Orlando from time to time, I've noticed that decent gains can be had on the cheap just by doing things like getting a good exhaust and a low restriction intake, then match porting the head to the manifolds. Most people add a chip at that point, but I don't think one is made for the S2 [which is why it is impossible to advance the timing for a few more ponies...] so your out of luck there.
Well, the final point I'll make is sure to be controversial but you cannot fault my logic. My S2 can hit 106 mph in a quarter mile with no other mods than a Borla exhaust. And it can cover that quarter in 13.8 seconds. How?
5 speed transmission!
-Consider pulling the "slush pump" the next time it gives you some hassle and get a decent manual tranny with the 2.73 rear end. I've driven automatic 928's and they are nice cars...but they are not the hooligan that the 5 speed cars are!
Good luck-
Normy!
01-07-2003, 12:28 PM
#6
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">More displacement is by far the best way to go...however, you can only take an 2 valve engine to 6.0 liters, and that would gain you about 75-100 hp or so. At a cost possibly nearing $8000... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Correction, my 928 is a 5.4L engine with no change to the stroke. I have 104 mm J&E forged pistons and if I stroked it I would have a 6.4L engine.
01-07-2003, 12:35 PM
#7
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Another Question -
Ive heard that the 4 spd auto can be modified to equal or exceed the performance of a 5 spd?. This would also include a rear end ratio upgrade?.
Fact or Myth ????
Lot of Stickers - drive downhill - You guys are toooo Funny - I did chuckle though
- IAG (It's ALL Good)
Ive heard that the 4 spd auto can be modified to equal or exceed the performance of a 5 spd?. This would also include a rear end ratio upgrade?.
Fact or Myth ????
Lot of Stickers - drive downhill - You guys are toooo Funny - I did chuckle though
- IAG (It's ALL Good)
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01-07-2003, 12:35 PM
#8
Burning Brakes
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TIA,
If you want to optimise – not supercharge, I think a chip from a high-recommended company will be good.
I newly became a member of ‘Porsche Club 928’ in Germany - <a href="http://www.porsche-club-928.de" target="_blank">www.porsche-club-928.de</a> - In the December magazine there is an interesting article. A German company ‘Landsharks/Jochen Ehrhardt und Frank Ellmann Motroptimierung’ are doing chip tuning for 928S2,S4, GT and GTS
On the test car - a GTS with a Metallrensportkat (a special metal-racer-cat) - the torque was increased about 20%, and the HP about 10% bought from about 4000 RPM and up, and the typically torque drop between 3000 and 4000 RPM disappeared
The supplier has two important key points:
· They do not just send the chip to the customer, each chip has to be optimised to the actual engine on an rolling test stand
· No reason for installing the chip if the car is fitted with the standard ceramic cat
The price is about 1050 Euro = 1050 USD included the test and instalment
I think that will be a good way to optimise the engine, and I am quite sure will go and visit him one day (when I got the spare time and spare money)
There must be similar suppliers in America
If you want to optimise – not supercharge, I think a chip from a high-recommended company will be good.
I newly became a member of ‘Porsche Club 928’ in Germany - <a href="http://www.porsche-club-928.de" target="_blank">www.porsche-club-928.de</a> - In the December magazine there is an interesting article. A German company ‘Landsharks/Jochen Ehrhardt und Frank Ellmann Motroptimierung’ are doing chip tuning for 928S2,S4, GT and GTS
On the test car - a GTS with a Metallrensportkat (a special metal-racer-cat) - the torque was increased about 20%, and the HP about 10% bought from about 4000 RPM and up, and the typically torque drop between 3000 and 4000 RPM disappeared
The supplier has two important key points:
· They do not just send the chip to the customer, each chip has to be optimised to the actual engine on an rolling test stand
· No reason for installing the chip if the car is fitted with the standard ceramic cat
The price is about 1050 Euro = 1050 USD included the test and instalment
I think that will be a good way to optimise the engine, and I am quite sure will go and visit him one day (when I got the spare time and spare money)
There must be similar suppliers in America
01-07-2003, 12:40 PM
#9
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
If you have any contact information for the manufacturer, I 'm sure the US Euro guys would be interested. Erik - thank you, please let us know.
01-07-2003, 05:06 PM
#13
Burning Brakes
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Drew,
Here you have the copy:
<a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/powerohneende1.gif" target="_blank">http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/powerohneende1.gif</a>
<a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/powerohneende2copy.gif" target="_blank">http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/powerohneende2copy.gif</a>
Good luck with the German
PS: I think the copy get big enough
<img border="0" alt="[byebye]" title="" src="graemlins/wave.gif" />
Here you have the copy:
<a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/powerohneende1.gif" target="_blank">http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/powerohneende1.gif</a>
<a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/powerohneende2copy.gif" target="_blank">http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/powerohneende2copy.gif</a>
Good luck with the German
PS: I think the copy get big enough
<img border="0" alt="[byebye]" title="" src="graemlins/wave.gif" />
01-07-2003, 06:53 PM
#14
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Drew, sounds like you've done most of the things I want to do to mine. I'm considering removing the smog pump next Spring. I've got the K+N filter because it was in the car when I bought it, still not convinced it adds any HP though (no baseline to compare to).
I'm interested in your thoughts on how much you gained by going to the electric fan and headers. Those are two mods I will do next year when I have access to my late Uncle's garage w/lift (still in business, my Aunt runs the place now).
Not sure if you want to go this route, but anything you can do to lighten the car will only help. Maybe nix the leather/power seats and go with a set of lighter manual ones, Recaro style?
I'm interested in your thoughts on how much you gained by going to the electric fan and headers. Those are two mods I will do next year when I have access to my late Uncle's garage w/lift (still in business, my Aunt runs the place now).
Not sure if you want to go this route, but anything you can do to lighten the car will only help. Maybe nix the leather/power seats and go with a set of lighter manual ones, Recaro style?
01-07-2003, 07:15 PM
#15
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
KB -
I would say a SIGNIFICANT power gain with removing the pump and the addition of the headers and EF. For One, the headers are way lighter than the stock manifolds. The thing that I had to deal with, when I removed the smog pump, was dialing the mixture setting in. I speculate maybe a 3-5 HP increase with the removal. The EF is an easy to add torque and generate less drag.
There has been a constructive argument that the addition and headers give only minor HP gains, but I still beg to differ. To maximize the addition/performance of headers, you MUST remove the casts or punch them out.
The way I have my EF wired is by manual control. Only when Neccessary by a turn **** by my EB. I used the existing one for the angle adj. lamps.
I also removerd the spare, jack and all other "accessories" from the rear. I know the seats are heavy but man, let me tell you - There are so nice for long trips.
Flex a lite - claims 17 HP ^ with the addition of an electric fan (That's probably why the later sharks all have electric fans?)
MSDS Headers claim up to 14% HP ^ with the addition of headers. Cats MUST BE REMOVED in order to achieve this level.
I have been in contact with MSDS and this is what they told me. That's also why I est 347hp for my current shark. I still have yet to Dyno my shark, but being an auto - I don't think I will get a true/accurate measurement.
If I can help any further - don't hesitate.
PS - I don't think I will be getting my land shark dynoe'd any time soon. Mr Policeman cam knocking today - I guess he didn't like my driving. No tickets but a nice little warning. She's going to be parked for awhile so I can do some changes any way. New Oil Pan gasket, Alt rebuild and so forth. Just goes to show you that honesty, courtesy and Respect will get you off the hook 7 out of 10 times. Thank you Officer J. Garcia - Mesa Police Dept.!
I would say a SIGNIFICANT power gain with removing the pump and the addition of the headers and EF. For One, the headers are way lighter than the stock manifolds. The thing that I had to deal with, when I removed the smog pump, was dialing the mixture setting in. I speculate maybe a 3-5 HP increase with the removal. The EF is an easy to add torque and generate less drag.
There has been a constructive argument that the addition and headers give only minor HP gains, but I still beg to differ. To maximize the addition/performance of headers, you MUST remove the casts or punch them out.
The way I have my EF wired is by manual control. Only when Neccessary by a turn **** by my EB. I used the existing one for the angle adj. lamps.
I also removerd the spare, jack and all other "accessories" from the rear. I know the seats are heavy but man, let me tell you - There are so nice for long trips.
Flex a lite - claims 17 HP ^ with the addition of an electric fan (That's probably why the later sharks all have electric fans?)
MSDS Headers claim up to 14% HP ^ with the addition of headers. Cats MUST BE REMOVED in order to achieve this level.
I have been in contact with MSDS and this is what they told me. That's also why I est 347hp for my current shark. I still have yet to Dyno my shark, but being an auto - I don't think I will get a true/accurate measurement.
If I can help any further - don't hesitate.
PS - I don't think I will be getting my land shark dynoe'd any time soon. Mr Policeman cam knocking today - I guess he didn't like my driving. No tickets but a nice little warning. She's going to be parked for awhile so I can do some changes any way. New Oil Pan gasket, Alt rebuild and so forth. Just goes to show you that honesty, courtesy and Respect will get you off the hook 7 out of 10 times. Thank you Officer J. Garcia - Mesa Police Dept.!