Mike Frye

OK, so I knew this was going too smoothly. Somebody talk me down because I think I just screwed up big time and I need some help.

Background: I'm pulling the clutch to see what parts I need to fix the noise I get when I take my foot completely off the clutch pedal. It also shudders or 'judders' going into first. From the searches I did, I think it's either the pilot bearing or release bearing. For now, I'm still taking things out though.

So Matt (Flying Dog) has been giving me pointers via PM, but I thought I'd start this thread for quicker responses (if possible) and to open it up so there's a record in case any other unfortunate soul ends up doing this.

Anyway, I've moved the starter and clutch slave, discoed the TDC sensor and speed/reference mark sensor from the top of the bell housing and pulled the lower bell housing piece.

I unbolted the central shaft, removed the bolts and slid the shaft coupling back (although I can't clear the shaft, it doesn't seem to want to go back far enough to clear). I unbolted the guide tube, marked everything and moved on to those damn pins.

I tapped the first one forward enough to clear the plate, but didn't remove it. Rotated the engine to the next, tapped that toward the front, and by now you know what I did wrong.

The first and second pins are sticking out of the flywheel just enough to clear the plate, but not enough to cause interference going into the bellhousing. I say going in, because when it rotated around to the starter, it's hitting the plate that's up in there and I can't turn the engine that way any further. Nor will I be able to loosen any bolts unless I rotate the engine the wrong way. I thought I had enough clearance and I obviously misread the directions and pushed them through the wrong way.

Somebody tell me I didn't just hose my engine, please?

Any help would be HUGELY appreciated.

Ted928

Remove the 4 bolts that hold the bell housing to the block, loosen the two tranny mount bolts, slide assembly back 2 inches. Leave pins alone.

I gave-up trying to understand the translated manual.
A friend of mine was from Korea and he learned english as a child, as they all do - his book read "this cake eats crisp". I think of that every time I am trying to decipher the 928 manual.

Ed Hughes

Mike:

PM ROG100, or I'm sure he'll chime in when he sees this. They just went thru the same thing with dannifumi's car here in DFW. It was the throwout bearing that was the culprit. I think the piilot bearing was pretty tough to get to, and it was decided to leave well enough alone.

FlyingDog

I didn't realize you had started digging in yet. I forgot to mention before that I didn't move my pins. I hammered on them and they didn't move, so I just left them there. The clutch came out fine.

How much force did it take to knock the pins through? Any hope of gently prying them back through? If not unbolting the bell housing from the block is the next option.

Worst case, you go though some diamond/carbide dremel bits cutting off the pins, rotate, knock them out, and replace them.

Mike Frye

Ted,

You make it sound so easy. I had visions of trying to spin this thing backward and screwing up the timing chains and everything else.

I think I saw a write-up about unbolting and sliding back 2" on Bill Ball's site for something he was doing. Is it really just that easy?

Matt,

The two pins are up in the bell housing now, I can't get to that part of the flywheel without rotating the engine the wrong way.

FlyingDog

How far out are the pins? You may not even have to worry about the tranny end. Unbolt the housing and pry the block forward. You should have no problem gaining 1/4" or maybe 1/2".

Mike Frye

Ed,

I'll check in with Rog too, thanks. I think I read his write-up. I thought that was something seized (not operator error), but it couldn't hurt to check.

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I'm hoping I didn't do some permanent damage, it all looked so easy on paper...

FlyingDog

Do it once and it's much easier the second or third or fourth time.

Mike Frye

Matt,

I think I need about 1/2". They're not sticking out more than the clearance of the flywheel to the bellhousing going in, which isn't more than 1/2-5/8", right?

I'll try that when I get back in. I think I need to call it a night now that I know there are options. I made the mistake because I'm tired and pushing and I should have stopped hours ago.

Thanks again everyone.

Matt, I owe you a beer next week at the GTG. What's your brand?

Ted928

After a couple hours of fustration with trying to get the clutch pack out, I finally changed tactics. It was easy for me to move the bell housing. Loosing the two tranny bolts were very easy. The four bell housing mounting bolts are highly torqued (I think 75 ft-lbs). I pushed on the tranny with my foot and it all moved and clutch dropped. Some people have had trouble seperating the housing from the block - I did not.
"This cake eats crisp"

FlyingDog

My choice seems to be Newcastle at 928 events. I bought some wheel spacers from popo928 with a few.

I don't know if I'm going to the GTG next week or not. I told Michaelathome I'd help him with his new spoiler install and a few other tasks that day. I used to go to all of the local GTGs, but I haven't been to one since Frenzy.

ErnestSw

You may be having trouble sliding the input shaft back because the pilot bearing is stuck on the engine end iof the shaft. Try to get a clamp on the shaft and get some force on it and it should let go. Sounds like the pilot bearing has been heating up.

FlyingDog

How is it tough to get to... it's sitting right in the end of the crank. Pilot bearing removal is easy (although potentially messy if you use the grease and dowel technique). If it's hard to remove, something has happened to it bad enough that it really needs to be replaced.

mark kibort

whats with all the "pin" talk? i just loosen the 6 clutch bolts and the entire thing drops down. i do the same thing putting it back in. the coupler should slide back to see the 1/2 " or so that the shafts are separated. if the input shaft is stuck on the pilot bearing, you will have to figure out a way to grip the pilot shaft and pry it free. getting the pilot bearing out is not that hard with a small puller

mk

Mike Frye

Thanks again everyone.

The coupling slides freely on both splines, but doesn't go back far enough on the main shaft to give space for the central shaft to clear the coupling like it shows in the manual. Everything appears loose (too loose?) on the engine side.

I can't get the coupler to slide that far back on the main shaft. Should I force it? Or maybe the central shaft gets pushed forward at the same time to show the gap?

One of the problems I have with these things is that the only time I get to see them is when they're broken, so it's hard to figure out from the WSM (I hear you Ted).

Mark,

I was following the WSM procedure, which spends a whole page (30-4) on moving but not removing these damn pins. See what I get for reading the directions (wrong)? It's worse than if I'd ignored them and just started backing the bolts out.

So you guys that don't remove the pins, I guess they stay in there and you use them as locator pins upon re-installation?

Now that I've got to move the bell housing back and possibly move the tranny and TT back, I'll probably have more issues with re-assembly.