Advice on clutch removal please !!! Hit a snag...
04-07-2007, 12:56 PM
#16
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The coupler does not slide back far enough to get the central shaft out by itself. The central shaft goes through the entire clutch pack and inserts into the pilot bearing. When the coupler is slid back, there is enough room to slide the central shaft back and out of the pilot bearing, but the whole pack has to come down to get the shaft completely out.
04-07-2007, 01:00 PM
#17
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I always thought that the only reason you didn't want to turn the engine backwards was to keep from messing up the tensioner (flattening the bellville washers).
I agree. I thought the pin removal was only for earlier (pre-85?) cars or something like that.
Originally Posted by mark kibort
whats with all the "pin" talk? i just loosen the 6 clutch bolts and the entire thing drops down. i do the same thing putting it back in.
mk
mk
04-07-2007, 03:16 PM
#18
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use a fat scew driver and wedge it back. maybe spray some WD40 on it. it should move back with no issues. could just be corroded or something.
mk
mk
Originally Posted by JKelly
The coupler does not slide back far enough to get the central shaft out by itself. The central shaft goes through the entire clutch pack and inserts into the pilot bearing. When the coupler is slid back, there is enough room to slide the central shaft back and out of the pilot bearing, but the whole pack has to come down to get the shaft completely out.
04-07-2007, 03:20 PM
#19
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yeah, force the coupler back. there shoud be enough room to not only see a space, but have space to pull the short shaft out of the pilot bearing and still have some room between it and the torque tube as you drop or re install the clutch pack with short shaft it it. its probably just stuck. also remember to re attach the coupleer before you start tightening the clutch pack, as then when its all buttoned up, you may not be able to get the coupler back on the short shaft. doing it before hand, allows for some wiggling of the short shaft , so it can slide back on easier.
Mk
Mk
Originally Posted by NJSharkFan
Thanks again everyone.
The coupling slides freely on both splines, but doesn't go back far enough on the main shaft to give space for the central shaft to clear the coupling like it shows in the manual. Everything appears loose (too loose?) on the engine side.
I can't get the coupler to slide that far back on the main shaft. Should I force it? Or maybe the central shaft gets pushed forward at the same time to show the gap?
One of the problems I have with these things is that the only time I get to see them is when they're broken, so it's hard to figure out from the WSM (I hear you Ted).
Mark,
I was following the WSM procedure, which spends a whole page (30-4) on moving but not removing these damn pins. See what I get for reading the directions (wrong)? It's worse than if I'd ignored them and just started backing the bolts out.
So you guys that don't remove the pins, I guess they stay in there and you use them as locator pins upon re-installation?
Now that I've got to move the bell housing back and possibly move the tranny and TT back, I'll probably have more issues with re-assembly.
The coupling slides freely on both splines, but doesn't go back far enough on the main shaft to give space for the central shaft to clear the coupling like it shows in the manual. Everything appears loose (too loose?) on the engine side.
I can't get the coupler to slide that far back on the main shaft. Should I force it? Or maybe the central shaft gets pushed forward at the same time to show the gap?
One of the problems I have with these things is that the only time I get to see them is when they're broken, so it's hard to figure out from the WSM (I hear you Ted).
Mark,
I was following the WSM procedure, which spends a whole page (30-4) on moving but not removing these damn pins. See what I get for reading the directions (wrong)? It's worse than if I'd ignored them and just started backing the bolts out.
So you guys that don't remove the pins, I guess they stay in there and you use them as locator pins upon re-installation?
Now that I've got to move the bell housing back and possibly move the tranny and TT back, I'll probably have more issues with re-assembly.
04-07-2007, 03:35 PM
#20
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Originally Posted by NJSharkFan
Thanks again everyone.
The coupling slides freely on both splines, but doesn't go back far enough on the main shaft to give space for the central shaft to clear the coupling like it shows in the manual. Everything appears loose (too loose?) on the engine side.
The coupling slides freely on both splines, but doesn't go back far enough on the main shaft to give space for the central shaft to clear the coupling like it shows in the manual. Everything appears loose (too loose?) on the engine side.
Originally Posted by NJSharkFan
I can't get the coupler to slide that far back on the main shaft. Should I force it? Or maybe the central shaft gets pushed forward at the same time to show the gap?
Originally Posted by NJSharkFan
One of the problems I have with these things is that the only time I get to see them is when they're broken, so it's hard to figure out from the WSM (I hear you Ted).
Originally Posted by NJSharkFan
Now that I've got to move the bell housing back and possibly move the tranny and TT back, I'll probably have more issues with re-assembly.
04-07-2007, 03:51 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by JKelly
I always thought that the only reason you didn't want to turn the engine backwards was to keep from messing up the tensioner (flattening the bellville washers).
04-07-2007, 03:59 PM
#22
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the belt starts doing Crazy things in the tensinoer area.
mk
mk
Originally Posted by JKelly
Can anyone else chime in on why he wouldn't just want to do the simple thing and crank the engine backwards 3/4 the distance on the flywheel so he can access the pin?
04-07-2007, 04:16 PM
#23
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JKelly,
I read that the reason you don't want to rotate the engine backward has to do with the cam timing chains. If they're rotated backward they lose tension and can skip a cog or something.
Thanks everyone. I haven't even tried moving the central shaft, so once the coupling is back all the way, the central shaft may slide back far enough to clear everything. I just didn't know the procedure and as I said, the WSM is a little vague. I think the write-ups I've seen were also done after the fact, so the writer probably just assumed a little. It's also possible that I'm an idiot and keep finding new and creative ways to mess up the simplest of tasks.
Hopefully I'll be getting into this again tomorrow, I'll post the results.
Thanks again for everyone's input. I was really ready to pull my hair out last night before I started getting responses.
I read that the reason you don't want to rotate the engine backward has to do with the cam timing chains. If they're rotated backward they lose tension and can skip a cog or something.
Thanks everyone. I haven't even tried moving the central shaft, so once the coupling is back all the way, the central shaft may slide back far enough to clear everything. I just didn't know the procedure and as I said, the WSM is a little vague. I think the write-ups I've seen were also done after the fact, so the writer probably just assumed a little. It's also possible that I'm an idiot and keep finding new and creative ways to mess up the simplest of tasks.
Hopefully I'll be getting into this again tomorrow, I'll post the results.
Thanks again for everyone's input. I was really ready to pull my hair out last night before I started getting responses.
04-07-2007, 04:20 PM
#24
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fwiw, while putting my clutch back in, I had a flywheel bolt stretch through the backside of the flywheel far enough to catch in the same area as you when I was turning the engine. I thought the engine had locked up or something 
. I carefully cranked the engine backwards and forwards several times to find out exactly what the problem was. Replaced the bolt, got everything back together, went for a drive, checked the timing belt through the inspection holes.........everything fine.
. I carefully cranked the engine backwards and forwards several times to find out exactly what the problem was. Replaced the bolt, got everything back together, went for a drive, checked the timing belt through the inspection holes.........everything fine.
04-07-2007, 04:55 PM
#25
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Originally Posted by NJSharkFan
It's also possible that I'm an idiot and keep finding new and creative ways to mess up the simplest of tasks.
04-07-2007, 10:40 PM
#27
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Still having trouble
Can someone confirm or deny my suspicions about rotating the engine the wrong way? If I don't hear anything to the contrary, I'm inclined to go John Kelly's route and turn it back the wrong way to get the damn pin out and move on.
There's a problem with the whole 'Move the bell housing back' idea which is:
I probably didn't describe the problem clearly enough. I drove the pins forward through the flywheel and they're protruding about 1/2". This means that even if I move the engine forward a little (and/or driveline back) since the piece that's blocking is attached on the engine side (it's a plate above the starter that's bolted to the block behind the flywheel) I still can't rotate the engine in that direction.
The flywheel is attached to the crank, so moving the bell housing back won't allow me to clear the plate because the pin is in the flywheel.
If I can't rotate it in the right direction at all, I don't think there's any way to unbolt the clutch from the flywheel, is there?
There's a problem with the whole 'Move the bell housing back' idea which is:
I probably didn't describe the problem clearly enough. I drove the pins forward through the flywheel and they're protruding about 1/2". This means that even if I move the engine forward a little (and/or driveline back) since the piece that's blocking is attached on the engine side (it's a plate above the starter that's bolted to the block behind the flywheel) I still can't rotate the engine in that direction.
The flywheel is attached to the crank, so moving the bell housing back won't allow me to clear the plate because the pin is in the flywheel.
If I can't rotate it in the right direction at all, I don't think there's any way to unbolt the clutch from the flywheel, is there?
04-07-2007, 10:59 PM
#28
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I can't tell you that it is OK to turn the engine backwards, but I can tell you that I have done it many times (I'm a rebel).
The tensioner is on the slop side when the engine is spinning forward. When you turn the engine backwards the tensioner is now on the loaded side so the load on the tensioner will increase until the cams turn.
The tensioner is on the slop side when the engine is spinning forward. When you turn the engine backwards the tensioner is now on the loaded side so the load on the tensioner will increase until the cams turn.
04-07-2007, 11:06 PM
#29
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Originally Posted by NJSharkFan
There's a problem with the whole 'Move the bell housing back' idea which is:
I probably didn't describe the problem clearly enough. I drove the pins forward through the flywheel and they're protruding about 1/2". This means that even if I move the engine forward a little (and/or driveline back) since the piece that's blocking is attached on the engine side (it's a plate above the starter that's bolted to the block behind the flywheel) I still can't rotate the engine in that direction.
The flywheel is attached to the crank, so moving the bell housing back won't allow me to clear the plate because the pin is in the flywheel.
If I can't rotate it in the right direction at all, I don't think there's any way to unbolt the clutch from the flywheel, is there?
I probably didn't describe the problem clearly enough. I drove the pins forward through the flywheel and they're protruding about 1/2". This means that even if I move the engine forward a little (and/or driveline back) since the piece that's blocking is attached on the engine side (it's a plate above the starter that's bolted to the block behind the flywheel) I still can't rotate the engine in that direction.
The flywheel is attached to the crank, so moving the bell housing back won't allow me to clear the plate because the pin is in the flywheel.
If I can't rotate it in the right direction at all, I don't think there's any way to unbolt the clutch from the flywheel, is there?
I don't understand. If you move the bell housing back ~2", you will have room to slide the clutch pack back and down; flywheel stays put.
If you can get it out by rotating the flywheel backwards then do it. If it is still hung-up, slide the housing back. - good luck
04-07-2007, 11:23 PM
#30
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Ted,
Sorry, I'm translating from geekspeak which is my native tongue. If this were DB programming I'd make a lot more sense
.
I'm really thinking I'm just going to bite the bullet and rotate the engine back almost a revolution and get the pin out of the way. Then I'll just turn it the correct direction while I back out all of the bolts and a few more times for good measure before I start it up so all of the belt tension and cam chain tension is in the right direction.
Thanks for all of the input everyone. Including all of the PMs. I'm done again for today, hopefully I'll get back into it sometime tomorrow or Monday (family obligations!!).
I'm going for the record here. Anyone take more than 3 days to remove a clutch?
Sorry, I'm translating from geekspeak which is my native tongue. If this were DB programming I'd make a lot more sense
.I'm really thinking I'm just going to bite the bullet and rotate the engine back almost a revolution and get the pin out of the way. Then I'll just turn it the correct direction while I back out all of the bolts and a few more times for good measure before I start it up so all of the belt tension and cam chain tension is in the right direction.
Thanks for all of the input everyone. Including all of the PMs. I'm done again for today, hopefully I'll get back into it sometime tomorrow or Monday (family obligations!!).
I'm going for the record here. Anyone take more than 3 days to remove a clutch?