Normy

On the ROW [Euro] spec cars, which lights are the fog lights and which are the driving lights?

My "outboard" pair of bumper lights are yellowed with age and I want to replace them with new parts...but do I need fogs or driving lights?

N!

Marine Blue

Have you tried turning them on to differentiate?

It's almost as if the middle lights are the fogs and they are suppose to be that color.

Normy you may also try wiping the interiors if you can get access to them. On my car I disassembled the fogs and removed years of moisture/dust buildup on the lenses. It made an immense difference IMHO. Can you get access to the lenses and reflective portion?

SharkSkin

On US cars, the outer lights are parking lights. If you have driving lights AND fog lights, my money is on the yellowed ones in your pic being driving lights. Maybe just hop in and flip the switches to check? On euros the driving lights should flash when you pull the turn stalk towards the wheel.

Imo000

The plastic lens litght is the parking light and the glass lens is the driving/fog light. I'm going from memory here but I think the yellowed ones are the plastic lenses.

Randy V

I have 2 brand new lenses in the original boxes - PM me if you'd like to get them for a fair price.

dan davies

i wish the welsh police knew the answer! i once had my driving lights on ,and got a £60 fine for having my fog lights on ?

Optimator

This can be a bit confusing when dealing with a federalized Euro car. To start with, here is the setup for a North American market car:

1) From outside to inside you have: turn signals, parking lights, fog lights. The fog lights have glass lenses and are activated by the switch on the pod. I think the headlight switch needs to be in at least the “1” position for this to work. The parking lights have plastic lenses and come on when the headlight switch is in the “1” or “2” position.

For a Euro car:

2) From outside to inside you have: turn signals, combination fog/parking lights, driving lights. Again the fog lights come on using the pod switch(es) with the headlight switch at least in the “1” position. The driving lights come on only with the high beams, or when pulling on the turn signal stalk for “flash to pass”.

Due to variations in how ROW cars were federalized, you may have to experiment a bit to figure out how your car is presently configured.

SharkSkin

Good info, Optimator! Can a US car be retrofitted without replacing the fogs, e.g. move the fogs out to where the parking lights are, then just add the driving lights? Or are US & Euro fogs different parts, different mounting, etc?

PorKen

US:
(T)[Prk][Fog]-------[Fog][Prk](T)

Euro:
(T)[F/p][Drv]-------[Drv][F/p](T)

The euro fogs have two lenses. The inside lens is plastic, and has the fog pattern cast in it. This is what is probably yellowing on N's car. The outside is glass, and has basically the same pattern as the driving, high beam, lights. The fog light also has a 4W city/park light built into it.

The housings are flipped around to fit the mounting holes in the aluminum bumper, so you can't easily change the position of the lights.

The US bumper has a steel bracket/reinforcement between the (T) and [Prk], which is rivited in. To install euro lights, you have to drill out the rivits, and remove the bracket.

The trim is different too. You'll need US'78 or euro trim, which has a thinner bar between (T) and [Prk].

I've got a euro bumper, and parts of all the euro lights, but I still need a couple lenses, and the trim.

PorKen

Here's the guts of a euro fog. The plastic lens is spring loaded, the two small tabs rest against the outside glass. You can see the city light.

Vilhuer

Driving light is bit misleading name as is city light.

Only purpose for driving light is to be additional high beam. Flash feature is convinient idea from the factory but they could have done similar feature differently also.

Purpose of city lights is to be on when car is temprarily parked on side of the road or car is driven during daytime. When light switch is in position I also rear lights come on. Together these work similarly as US side marker lights, show that car is moving to other road users when actual low beams are not needed.

SharkSkin

Good info Ken, Thanks!

PorKen

As I understand it, the city light, usually located in the headlamp, is there because some European cities used to require you to turn off the headlights while driving in the well-lit center of town.

Normy - unless Randy has euro fog lenses, they won't work; the US ones are not the same. Also, I don't think you can get the plastic lens separately. It's part of the reflector.

Vilhuer

It was common practice before daytime running light were invented to keep those city lights on in some countries.

Optimator

Thanks to PorKen and Vilhuer for all the additional info.