GREAT electrical draw diagnosis - I bought a Willhoit GTS!
03-09-2007, 04:07 PM
#91
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Ryan, unless the battery drains down to a no start status within 12 hours, there is no reason you can't take it on a trip. Security system drains are pretty common, and usually take three or four days to drain a healthy battery.
03-09-2007, 04:11 PM
#92
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Originally Posted by Charley B
Ryan, unless the battery drains down to a no start status within 12 hours, there is no reason you can't take it on a trip. Security system drains are pretty common, and usually take three or four days to drain a healthy battery.
03-09-2007, 04:14 PM
#93
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Ryan:
Did they give you an idea of the residual current draw?
Is this an aftermarket security system or the stock alarm?
If all the relays and fuses did not affect the draw, then the next step would have been to pull the wire plugs that are at the bottom of the fuse panel one at a time. We had to do that last weekend on the GTS and found the last part of the draw there. Also, there are a few circuits that are not wired into the CE panel.
However, it seems you have some indication it is the security system, so somebody should be able to look a that more closely and find the problem there.
If it takes 5 days to flatten the battery, go on your trip and drive it every day. If you can't drive it every day, trickle charge it until you can find the fault. But don't be satisfied with the idea that you just have to accept this situation.
Did they give you an idea of the residual current draw?
Is this an aftermarket security system or the stock alarm?
If all the relays and fuses did not affect the draw, then the next step would have been to pull the wire plugs that are at the bottom of the fuse panel one at a time. We had to do that last weekend on the GTS and found the last part of the draw there. Also, there are a few circuits that are not wired into the CE panel.
However, it seems you have some indication it is the security system, so somebody should be able to look a that more closely and find the problem there.
If it takes 5 days to flatten the battery, go on your trip and drive it every day. If you can't drive it every day, trickle charge it until you can find the fault. But don't be satisfied with the idea that you just have to accept this situation.
03-09-2007, 04:17 PM
#94
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Originally Posted by Charley B
Ryan, unless the battery drains down to a no start status within 12 hours, there is no reason you can't take it on a trip. Security system drains are pretty common, and usually take three or four days to drain a healthy battery.
03-09-2007, 04:24 PM
#95
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Originally Posted by retter1126
The car spent the last two days in the shop. The cig lighter is now working, however the drain has not been located. They tested all fuses and relays which were good and affected nothing. They did notice that the drain on their meter conincided with each flash of the security sys light. I'm told that that's why I need the trickle charger, however I'm wondering how I'd ever take the car on a trip as the battery would be dead in five days?
Thoughts?
Ryan
03-09-2007, 04:32 PM
#96
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Assuming that you're working with a healthy battery and the stock alarm, 5 days doesn't sound right to me either.
If you can't track down any abnormal power draws, you could use a solar maintainer. If you're considering carrying around an AC maintainer and getting to an AC outlet when you're traveling, as being a hassle, this might be a solution.
Solar maintainers are cheap (again, Harbor Freight, Sears, etc.), and since they're flat, they store easily & out of the way - under a seat, for instance. A basic solar maintainer (small panel) would offset any normal current draw that your car experiences.
As mentioned earlier, you wouldn't be able to use it through the lighter plug, as most solar maintainers are designed to do, but with a little modification, you could run a jumper from the battery to a plug connection that would protrude out of the back panel. It would tuck away out of sight when not in use, and you'd plug in the solar maintainer when the car will be parked for days on end.
If you can't track down any abnormal power draws, you could use a solar maintainer. If you're considering carrying around an AC maintainer and getting to an AC outlet when you're traveling, as being a hassle, this might be a solution.
Solar maintainers are cheap (again, Harbor Freight, Sears, etc.), and since they're flat, they store easily & out of the way - under a seat, for instance. A basic solar maintainer (small panel) would offset any normal current draw that your car experiences.
As mentioned earlier, you wouldn't be able to use it through the lighter plug, as most solar maintainers are designed to do, but with a little modification, you could run a jumper from the battery to a plug connection that would protrude out of the back panel. It would tuck away out of sight when not in use, and you'd plug in the solar maintainer when the car will be parked for days on end.
03-09-2007, 06:41 PM
#98
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Assuming a 100amp/hour battery(optimistic) your draw would have to be about .8 amps to drain the battery in 5 days. Most of these solar chargers are only intended to keep a healthy battery from going flat all by itself and put out 30-40 mA (.03-.04 amps). A minute or two doing Google searches and I found one that pushes 750mA(probably only with the panel in open air -- not inside the car -- and perpendicular to the sun's rays) and it's close to $200: http://www.baproducts.com/asccustomp...ProductID=2565
Considering that it still wouldn't do the job after spending $200 it's probably worth spending an hour or two tracking down the real problem and at the very least disable the problem circuits.
Considering that it still wouldn't do the job after spending $200 it's probably worth spending an hour or two tracking down the real problem and at the very least disable the problem circuits.
03-09-2007, 07:31 PM
#99
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Ryan - if you drive it every day you will be charging it up quite well - so I wouldn't worry about that - its when you leave it alone for a week you will have trouble...
The Security system should not take much current whatever its doing. When is disarmed its not really 'off' - its always connected. The flashing LED''s do take a little more current but its in the 10's of mA for a small % duty cycle. It should be almost negligible. Do both door LED's work? the only way these could take much current is if they are faulty...
Alan
The Security system should not take much current whatever its doing. When is disarmed its not really 'off' - its always connected. The flashing LED''s do take a little more current but its in the 10's of mA for a small % duty cycle. It should be almost negligible. Do both door LED's work? the only way these could take much current is if they are faulty...
Alan
03-09-2007, 08:05 PM
#100
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Originally Posted by Alan
Ryan - if you drive it every day you will be charging it up quite well - so I wouldn't worry about that - its when you leave it alone for a week you will have trouble...
The Security system should not take much current whatever its doing. When is disarmed its not really 'off' - its always connected. The flashing LED''s do take a little more current but its in the 10's of mA for a small % duty cycle. It should be almost negligible. Do both door LED's work? the only way these could take much current is if they are faulty...
Alan
The Security system should not take much current whatever its doing. When is disarmed its not really 'off' - its always connected. The flashing LED''s do take a little more current but its in the 10's of mA for a small % duty cycle. It should be almost negligible. Do both door LED's work? the only way these could take much current is if they are faulty...
Alan
Ultimately I'm a guy illustrating magazine covers trying to be a rocket scientist. It would be a mistake for me to try anything.
Oh, and the mechanic said the draw is over 10 amps and is not constant. It spikes each time the LED's flash.
I have a call into Bob Hindson who is the local secialist according to Willhoit. I'm just worried about going broke now. The car is beautiful! There's got to be a way to sort this all out.
One last thing. I'm going to a big family gathering tomorrow and most will see the new wheels for the first time. It's supposed to be sunny and 70. It's all worth it isn't it?
Ryan
03-09-2007, 08:06 PM
#101
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Rather than speculate, just disconnect the alarm system (electrically). If the car stilll continues to drain the battery, you have just traveled one step further in your process of elimination.
03-09-2007, 08:12 PM
#102
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Originally Posted by 928ntslow
Rather than speculate, just disconnect the alarm system (electrically). If the car stilll continues to drain the battery, you have just traveled one step further in your process of elimination.
03-09-2007, 09:45 PM
#103
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Retter, hopefully Wilhoit will feel some obligation to help you out with some of these problems. 
Regardless, don't let these issues overwhelm you. Take them one at a time.
There's no better soundboard to bounce off your symptoms from than this forum.
If somebody comes up with something that's likely not the problem, it will likely be respectfully questioned by somebody in the know....my solar maintainer idea, for example. Dave's right. If your draw isn't normal (10 amps?!!), a solar maintainer isn't going to help you.
One thing that you can be sure of, is that the majority of the members that have weighed in on your issue(s) in this thread know what they're talking about. Many of them have been there, done that.
If you isolate each problem and deal with them in order of priority, getting this car right likely won't break your bank.
Sounds like Alan's on the right track w/something faulty in your LED's....a 10 amp spike?!!
Anyway, this drain is your no. 1 priority.
Re: the airbag fault:
This is not an anomaly with 90+ cars. It may be no more than a contact needing cleaning. If it's the standard sensor contact issue, you can drive the car without any worries....maybe no airbag deployment in a collision, but no non-accident worries.
Don't start throwing money at this before researching the likely cause on this list. Start a new thread when you get to that point, and those in the know will weigh in. If I'm not mistaken, the airbag fault cannot simply be reset with standard OBDII equipment in 93+ cars. I'm not sure when all cars became OBDII compliant, but the pre-OBDII cars needed special diagnostic equipment (Bosch Hammer or Baum) to read the codes and reset a fault. Once reset, however, the fault will likely return if the cause isn't isolated and addressed.
I can't imagine any fault in the airbag circuitry as having any effect on your drain. It's probably just a cruel coincidence. There are threads that address this, and members who can help.
Regardless, don't let these issues overwhelm you. Take them one at a time.
There's no better soundboard to bounce off your symptoms from than this forum.
If somebody comes up with something that's likely not the problem, it will likely be respectfully questioned by somebody in the know....my solar maintainer idea, for example. Dave's right. If your draw isn't normal (10 amps?!!), a solar maintainer isn't going to help you.
One thing that you can be sure of, is that the majority of the members that have weighed in on your issue(s) in this thread know what they're talking about. Many of them have been there, done that.
If you isolate each problem and deal with them in order of priority, getting this car right likely won't break your bank.
Sounds like Alan's on the right track w/something faulty in your LED's....a 10 amp spike?!!
Anyway, this drain is your no. 1 priority.
Re: the airbag fault:
This is not an anomaly with 90+ cars. It may be no more than a contact needing cleaning. If it's the standard sensor contact issue, you can drive the car without any worries....maybe no airbag deployment in a collision, but no non-accident worries.
Don't start throwing money at this before researching the likely cause on this list. Start a new thread when you get to that point, and those in the know will weigh in. If I'm not mistaken, the airbag fault cannot simply be reset with standard OBDII equipment in 93+ cars. I'm not sure when all cars became OBDII compliant, but the pre-OBDII cars needed special diagnostic equipment (Bosch Hammer or Baum) to read the codes and reset a fault. Once reset, however, the fault will likely return if the cause isn't isolated and addressed.
I can't imagine any fault in the airbag circuitry as having any effect on your drain. It's probably just a cruel coincidence. There are threads that address this, and members who can help.
03-10-2007, 01:34 AM
#104
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Well - first you remove the passenger seat... the alarm lives right underneath covered by a metal tray bolted down on top - there are 2 connectors - just unplug them. You will lose the interior lights, the alarm and the central locking - but nothing critical. As Keith says - its a good check...
There is no way you should be seeing 10A spiking ever from this - if this is happening something is badly wrong. If you really suspect the LED's the other step worth doing for debug is (with the alarm connected) to disconnect them individually for each door. Unfortunately to do this its easiest to remove the interior door panels (I know you are getting in way deeper than you thought)... its not actually hard but its a lot to have to do right away...
Clear the airbag warning - if its real it will come back.
Alan
There is no way you should be seeing 10A spiking ever from this - if this is happening something is badly wrong. If you really suspect the LED's the other step worth doing for debug is (with the alarm connected) to disconnect them individually for each door. Unfortunately to do this its easiest to remove the interior door panels (I know you are getting in way deeper than you thought)... its not actually hard but its a lot to have to do right away...
Clear the airbag warning - if its real it will come back.
Alan