Mobil 1 synthetic 15w-50 $4.74 qt
03-13-2007, 08:06 PM
#47
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Quote by Keith
Please tell me you mean the same TYPE of Fram oil filter.
My F150 that I had purchased new in 1992 has had nothing but Mobil 1 since the day I have owned it. AND the same FRAM oil filter. My truck now has over 305K miles
03-13-2007, 08:14 PM
#48
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Originally Posted by mark kibort
Of all the 928 #2-6 bearing failures Ive heard about, 10 of them have been with mobil 1, and one has been with amzoil.
03-13-2007, 08:17 PM
#49
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Hi,
Gretch - With Delvac 1 5w-40 you are using what is generally accepted by Tribologists of all persuasions as one of the best lubricants ever produced. It is an advanced Group 4/5 formulation with around 20% ester content and a formidable track record in many applications around the World.
Rotella T synthetic 5w-40 is an excellent Group 3 advanced "hydrocracked" product. Shell make a great range of lubricants - I first used their worm drive synthetic gear oils 40 years ago!
Gretch, I would stick with what you have - I have!
Warren928 - Redline or Amsoil are no better than many other comparable specification and much cheaper products. In some cases they may NOT/do NOT perform as well and it is wise to compare only similar specification lubricants - anything else is really quite meaningless
Something that most people have difficulty with is a simple fact - oils thicken as they cool! Mobil and others lubricants with a high Viscosity Index may start with a "thinner" cold "real" viscosity that actually changes at a lessor rate as it reaches the operating ideal band of around 92-110C
Bill - you are absolutely correct! Mobil has around 65% of the synthetic lubricants market and supply Amsoil and others with the wherewithall to blend their own branded products! Amsoil is a boutique supplier with a very small customer base 3% perhaps - so do the sums Mark.
As well, the failure of an engine when using THE CORRECT SPECIFICATION lubricant is very very rare indeed. 99.99% of failures are NOT lubricant related!!
Recently I had dealings with a number of Factory and other private Technicians on this issue. I can confirm the fact that the Porsche Factory's use of Mobil 1 is based on many things - but one, is the excellent field performance of their recommended and Approved products
It is of interest that a racing 1949 GP Lago Talbot I "played with" at the weekend uses Castrol GTX 20w-50 - well warmed up to 80C+ prior to use. It is changed after each day's racing. So my posts will always deal with vehicles "normal" use and there is a Thread in here I started on "Racing Lubricants for a 928" several years ago - do you remember Mark?
Sometimes I feel that I may inhibit free exchanges on lubricants on here and therefore don't always respond to Threads. There is much more that can be said in this thread however
I thank those people that lurk on here and work variously within the Oil Industry in "serious" jobs for several Oil Companies and have reponded privately to me over the last several years
Regards
Gretch - With Delvac 1 5w-40 you are using what is generally accepted by Tribologists of all persuasions as one of the best lubricants ever produced. It is an advanced Group 4/5 formulation with around 20% ester content and a formidable track record in many applications around the World.
Rotella T synthetic 5w-40 is an excellent Group 3 advanced "hydrocracked" product. Shell make a great range of lubricants - I first used their worm drive synthetic gear oils 40 years ago!
Gretch, I would stick with what you have - I have!
Warren928 - Redline or Amsoil are no better than many other comparable specification and much cheaper products. In some cases they may NOT/do NOT perform as well and it is wise to compare only similar specification lubricants - anything else is really quite meaningless
Something that most people have difficulty with is a simple fact - oils thicken as they cool! Mobil and others lubricants with a high Viscosity Index may start with a "thinner" cold "real" viscosity that actually changes at a lessor rate as it reaches the operating ideal band of around 92-110C
Bill - you are absolutely correct! Mobil has around 65% of the synthetic lubricants market and supply Amsoil and others with the wherewithall to blend their own branded products! Amsoil is a boutique supplier with a very small customer base 3% perhaps - so do the sums Mark.
As well, the failure of an engine when using THE CORRECT SPECIFICATION lubricant is very very rare indeed. 99.99% of failures are NOT lubricant related!!
Recently I had dealings with a number of Factory and other private Technicians on this issue. I can confirm the fact that the Porsche Factory's use of Mobil 1 is based on many things - but one, is the excellent field performance of their recommended and Approved products
It is of interest that a racing 1949 GP Lago Talbot I "played with" at the weekend uses Castrol GTX 20w-50 - well warmed up to 80C+ prior to use. It is changed after each day's racing. So my posts will always deal with vehicles "normal" use and there is a Thread in here I started on "Racing Lubricants for a 928" several years ago - do you remember Mark?
Sometimes I feel that I may inhibit free exchanges on lubricants on here and therefore don't always respond to Threads. There is much more that can be said in this thread however
I thank those people that lurk on here and work variously within the Oil Industry in "serious" jobs for several Oil Companies and have reponded privately to me over the last several years
Regards
Last edited by Doug Hillary; 03-13-2007 at 08:36 PM.
03-13-2007, 08:32 PM
#50
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When will someone create a "Doug Hillary" approved insignia to stamp them on Delvac and Rotella jugs.
Was quite surprised when I saw both Delvac and Rotella being stocked at the NJ auto parts store. Think the Delvac was in their truck section.
Ernest (NYC) Running M1 0W-40 in a street motor. Running low revs to not wake up them Johnny Lawmen. 1.5ish bar on warm idle. But can I really trust any of my dash guages.
Was quite surprised when I saw both Delvac and Rotella being stocked at the NJ auto parts store. Think the Delvac was in their truck section.
Ernest (NYC) Running M1 0W-40 in a street motor. Running low revs to not wake up them Johnny Lawmen. 1.5ish bar on warm idle. But can I really trust any of my dash guages.
03-13-2007, 08:43 PM
#51
Burning Brakes
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I understand that oil get thicker when cooler, but it SHOULD maintain a mininum level of thickness at high operating temps. I have watched the oil pressure gauge on my hotrod and found that lesser oils do not give as much thickness/oil pressure at higher temps and under abuse.
Some oils are MORE engineered for everyday street use, Others for high temp viscosity stability in racing environments. The only way to test that is check your pressure gauge under those conditions. A laboratory is not a "real world" environment to test it in.
I don't think amsoil is any worse for the wear, I beleive its better as their interval change is at 25,000 miles for their automotive quality oil. Tests were done on a semi diesel engine with amsoil and found that after 1 million miles the engine had virtually NO INTERNAL WEAR. And I think that was with changing the oil much after the recommended 25,000 mile change intervals. The owner only changed it when the lab oil test came back as the "oil needing a change or breakdown".
Remember also that in racing circles the "racers oils" are much more popular, like deep purple, redline and amsoil. So Mark Kibort's report of hearing alot of the 928's blowing bearings should not really be biased because racers use alot more amsoil and redline products. I think they already know what we are just coming to realize as a community.
Some oils are MORE engineered for everyday street use, Others for high temp viscosity stability in racing environments. The only way to test that is check your pressure gauge under those conditions. A laboratory is not a "real world" environment to test it in.
I don't think amsoil is any worse for the wear, I beleive its better as their interval change is at 25,000 miles for their automotive quality oil. Tests were done on a semi diesel engine with amsoil and found that after 1 million miles the engine had virtually NO INTERNAL WEAR. And I think that was with changing the oil much after the recommended 25,000 mile change intervals. The owner only changed it when the lab oil test came back as the "oil needing a change or breakdown".
Remember also that in racing circles the "racers oils" are much more popular, like deep purple, redline and amsoil. So Mark Kibort's report of hearing alot of the 928's blowing bearings should not really be biased because racers use alot more amsoil and redline products. I think they already know what we are just coming to realize as a community.
03-13-2007, 10:08 PM
#53
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Please tell me you mean the same TYPE of Fram oil filter.
Thanks for catching that Charley, I have NEVER changed oil without a new filter.
If I am not mistaken on the bearing failure issue, failure is because there is no oil in the pan....regardless of what kind of oil it is. I think it's hard left turns (?) and no baffle or scraper or what have you. Serious suction into the top of the engine and CF throw what ever oil is left in the pan at high revs (in a left turn) up along the right side of the pan/crank case starving the bearings of lubrication. The only time this will happen on a street engine is 1) tracking your street car or 2) high speed chase on the 11 O'clock news in LA, running at red line in the city or the canyons just teasing the CHP.
I feel comfy running Mobil 1 15W-50 in my GTS. However, I am NOT a fan of the pricing! Rotella, Rotella...I hear you calling my name...or Delvac.
03-13-2007, 10:16 PM
#54
Burning Brakes
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Hi,
for those that are interested in RACING OILS these links in this Forum via "Search" may be of interest;
Racing Engine Oils - Short List
Engine oil used when racing
Regards
for those that are interested in RACING OILS these links in this Forum via "Search" may be of interest;
Racing Engine Oils - Short List
Engine oil used when racing
Regards
03-14-2007, 12:29 AM
#55
Three Wheelin'
Doug Hillary,
Can you confirm or deny that the Mobil 1 oil pictured is the same formulation as the 5w40 Mobil 1 Delvac you (and Porsche) recommend? Thanks!
Can you confirm or deny that the Mobil 1 oil pictured is the same formulation as the 5w40 Mobil 1 Delvac you (and Porsche) recommend? Thanks!
03-14-2007, 12:46 AM
#56
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Hi Chaad,
I cannot confirm it but the formulations are VERY similar! I would use it as Delvac 1 5w-40 and I believe it to be the same stuff only "Brand marketed" at the consumer market
Of course it has API's SL rating for petrol engines and the very tough ACEA E5,E4,E3 ratings for Euro Diesels. The API's CI-4 Plus rating is very stringent
An excellent Group 4/5 product and a real bargain!!!
it is not marketed in OZ and Delvac 1 5w-40 is only really readily available to Commercial users via ExxonMobil Distributors. I have had many fights with EM over this point
Regards
I cannot confirm it but the formulations are VERY similar! I would use it as Delvac 1 5w-40 and I believe it to be the same stuff only "Brand marketed" at the consumer market
Of course it has API's SL rating for petrol engines and the very tough ACEA E5,E4,E3 ratings for Euro Diesels. The API's CI-4 Plus rating is very stringent
An excellent Group 4/5 product and a real bargain!!!
it is not marketed in OZ and Delvac 1 5w-40 is only really readily available to Commercial users via ExxonMobil Distributors. I have had many fights with EM over this point
Regards
03-14-2007, 01:50 AM
#58
Rennlist Member
I believe that many of us like to use race bred products, in hopes that if we use them in our cars they will help them last forever. Im not so much baggin on Mobil 1 (although i have a grip on how it breaks down at high temps) , as i am bragging about how amzoil protects. one of the reasons i changed from dyno oil to amzoil was its ability to last 2-3 times as long before changes.
Keep in mind, the filter is just that, a filter. actually, as long as it is not clogged, it cleans better as it gets dirty.(kind of like an air filter). Ive never changed my oil filter in my BMW either, but with the porsche it gets changed every time! a lot of what we do is superstition, etc.
one thing i would critize, is the use of 40 weight, when porsche calls out for 20-50 for the normal temp ranges. However, like ive said before, i think the most important issue for the longevity of our engines is changing the oil frequently, regardless if is mobil 1 or kendal.
sorry, didnt ment to bag too much on the Mobil 1. has there been any #2-6 rod bearing failures on a street car? if so, i would be concerned using it. If not, then i would agree to honor Mobil 1 as a good street oil.
Mk
Keep in mind, the filter is just that, a filter. actually, as long as it is not clogged, it cleans better as it gets dirty.(kind of like an air filter). Ive never changed my oil filter in my BMW either, but with the porsche it gets changed every time! a lot of what we do is superstition, etc.
one thing i would critize, is the use of 40 weight, when porsche calls out for 20-50 for the normal temp ranges. However, like ive said before, i think the most important issue for the longevity of our engines is changing the oil frequently, regardless if is mobil 1 or kendal.
sorry, didnt ment to bag too much on the Mobil 1. has there been any #2-6 rod bearing failures on a street car? if so, i would be concerned using it. If not, then i would agree to honor Mobil 1 as a good street oil.
Mk
Originally Posted by 928ntslow
Mark, you are preaching to a street crowd which far outways the small percentage of racers....like maybe 100:1 or more. None of us will ever realize the effeccts that you are referrring to. I have used Mobil 1 since they had started making it. It is GREAT stuff no matter how you slice it. I don't even think they push the shelf product for anything other than street use. My F150 that I had purchased new in 1992 has had nothing but Mobil 1 since the day I have owned it. AND the same FRAM oil filter. Which incidentally, is KEY to any oiling system. It is more important than the oil itself! My truck now has over 305K miles and runs like a top! I ran the hell out of my 1982 928 with Mobil 1 all of the years I had it in the southern California heat...ran like a top!
I and others know you have learned and obtained quite a bit of knowledge in your racing and no one is disputing that or arguing with you over it, but quit baggin' on street products...especially Mobil 1...it's a top notch oil! You yourself should know these are two very different enviroments requiring differnt products.
I and others know you have learned and obtained quite a bit of knowledge in your racing and no one is disputing that or arguing with you over it, but quit baggin' on street products...especially Mobil 1...it's a top notch oil! You yourself should know these are two very different enviroments requiring differnt products.
03-14-2007, 02:00 AM
#59
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Originally Posted by Doug Hillary
Hi Chaad,
I cannot confirm it but the formulations are VERY similar! I would use it as Delvac 1 5w-40 and I believe it to be the same stuff only "Brand marketed" at the consumer market
I cannot confirm it but the formulations are VERY similar! I would use it as Delvac 1 5w-40 and I believe it to be the same stuff only "Brand marketed" at the consumer market
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...rboDiesel.aspx
03-14-2007, 02:22 AM
#60
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Hi,
one of the problems with oil filters Mark is the very issue you raise - oil temperature!
I would ONLY use a OEM filter on a 928 and change it annually or at 20kkms whichever comes first. The OEM filter(s) are very well constructed with valving and filtering media that matches the high relief valve settings used on Porsche engines
Non OEM or substandard filters tend to self destruct if the seals, glues and media are not durable and usually their media and differential by-pass setting are unreliable. High oil temperatures tend to accellerate this process
As for SAE40 viscosity oils, well they are not all built the same and instead of focusing on the viscosity at 100C it is much better to have a reliable and sustainable High Temperature High Shear (HTHS) viscosity (measured at 150C) than a SAE50 oil with an unreliable one
The main OEM "user" viscosities are;
SAE20 (0w-20 and etc)
SAE30 (0w-30 and etc)
SAE40 (0w-40 and etc)
SAE50 (0w-50 and etc)
So an SAE40 luubricant is actually at the high end of things considering Porsche factory filled with Shell's Rotella (Rimula) HDEO SAE30 monograde in all air cooled engines for many many years!
The main thing for a 928 in street use is to use an Approved oil that has a 0w or 5W "cold" rating
Approved oils meet stringent tests determined by the Engineers who made the engines. The tests are very specific with regard to HTHS and 100C viscosity over extended periods along with foaming control and strict volatility parameters. There are other protocols too
The normal and most desirable oil temperature operating range in a 928 is from around 92C to 110C and up to 120C is no issue with Approved oils. It is better to operate with hot oil in this range than to try and run oil too cool
And Mark, Castrol's "R" or Edge fully synthetic 10w-60 is probably one of the Worlds best racing oils in the correct application. I know a little about this lubricant having had a hand in its development from about 1980! it sure is worth a try and note the 10w cold rating!
Regards
one of the problems with oil filters Mark is the very issue you raise - oil temperature!
I would ONLY use a OEM filter on a 928 and change it annually or at 20kkms whichever comes first. The OEM filter(s) are very well constructed with valving and filtering media that matches the high relief valve settings used on Porsche engines
Non OEM or substandard filters tend to self destruct if the seals, glues and media are not durable and usually their media and differential by-pass setting are unreliable. High oil temperatures tend to accellerate this process
As for SAE40 viscosity oils, well they are not all built the same and instead of focusing on the viscosity at 100C it is much better to have a reliable and sustainable High Temperature High Shear (HTHS) viscosity (measured at 150C) than a SAE50 oil with an unreliable one
The main OEM "user" viscosities are;
SAE20 (0w-20 and etc)
SAE30 (0w-30 and etc)
SAE40 (0w-40 and etc)
SAE50 (0w-50 and etc)
So an SAE40 luubricant is actually at the high end of things considering Porsche factory filled with Shell's Rotella (Rimula) HDEO SAE30 monograde in all air cooled engines for many many years!
The main thing for a 928 in street use is to use an Approved oil that has a 0w or 5W "cold" rating
Approved oils meet stringent tests determined by the Engineers who made the engines. The tests are very specific with regard to HTHS and 100C viscosity over extended periods along with foaming control and strict volatility parameters. There are other protocols too
The normal and most desirable oil temperature operating range in a 928 is from around 92C to 110C and up to 120C is no issue with Approved oils. It is better to operate with hot oil in this range than to try and run oil too cool
And Mark, Castrol's "R" or Edge fully synthetic 10w-60 is probably one of the Worlds best racing oils in the correct application. I know a little about this lubricant having had a hand in its development from about 1980! it sure is worth a try and note the 10w cold rating!
Regards