Mobil 1 synthetic 15w-50 $4.74 qt
03-12-2007, 04:24 PM
#16
Craic Head
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I need to find a source of Amsoil or Redline out here in Charlotte.
Sorry for the hijack.
03-12-2007, 08:37 PM
#19
Burning Brakes
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Hi,
martin D - sadly there are some inaccuracies in the referenced article along with some comments and "findings" which can be disputed
One glaring error is in catergorising Delvac 1 5w-40 as a Mineral oil! It is actually a group 4/5 fully synthetic lubricant with a formidable reputation over more than a decade
Another is stating that the Castrol Syntec version is a synthetic - it is actually judged as a Group 3 oil which is "semi synthetic" outside NA
As well it is extremely unwise to focus on one or two "chemicals" used in an oil's formulation. New chemicals that are replacing the old ones are proving to be better - it is all in the blender's intent
Your quote saying that SM formulated oils are not as good as the old SL is contentious and wrong
In a non racing environment we should perhaps all focus on using the correct lubricant as outlined in various TSB's from Porsche. In most cases 5w-40 is the best viscosity to use in a 928 with Mobil 1 5w-50 being the only SAE50 viscosity oil Approved. There are very sound reasons for using a lubricant with a 0w or 5w "cold" viscosity rating especially in 32V engines
As a minimum standard A3/B3 should be on the oil's specification list if the "Porsche Approved" statement is not present and the oil is NOT on the Approval list and such an oil is not available
Regards
martin D - sadly there are some inaccuracies in the referenced article along with some comments and "findings" which can be disputed
One glaring error is in catergorising Delvac 1 5w-40 as a Mineral oil! It is actually a group 4/5 fully synthetic lubricant with a formidable reputation over more than a decade
Another is stating that the Castrol Syntec version is a synthetic - it is actually judged as a Group 3 oil which is "semi synthetic" outside NA
As well it is extremely unwise to focus on one or two "chemicals" used in an oil's formulation. New chemicals that are replacing the old ones are proving to be better - it is all in the blender's intent
Your quote saying that SM formulated oils are not as good as the old SL is contentious and wrong
In a non racing environment we should perhaps all focus on using the correct lubricant as outlined in various TSB's from Porsche. In most cases 5w-40 is the best viscosity to use in a 928 with Mobil 1 5w-50 being the only SAE50 viscosity oil Approved. There are very sound reasons for using a lubricant with a 0w or 5w "cold" viscosity rating especially in 32V engines
As a minimum standard A3/B3 should be on the oil's specification list if the "Porsche Approved" statement is not present and the oil is NOT on the Approval list and such an oil is not available
Regards
03-12-2007, 08:51 PM
#20
Supercharged
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Doug, thanks for chiming in. I know I, along with many others here, consider you to be the foremost authority on this subject around here. 
03-12-2007, 09:09 PM
#21
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I use Rotella-T 5-40 synthetic in all of our fleet. <$14/gallon at MalWart.
03-12-2007, 09:20 PM
#22
Has anyone heard of a negative in the Valvoline Racing 20-50?
Use M1 in everything but the 928 and the PO used the Valvoline for the past many years.
I used Royal Purple in my 454 powered boat and was impressed but I'm still unsure in the 928.
Use M1 in everything but the 928 and the PO used the Valvoline for the past many years.
I used Royal Purple in my 454 powered boat and was impressed but I'm still unsure in the 928.
03-12-2007, 09:22 PM
#23
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we use it to break in the motors, then switch to redline, amzoil or im sure royal purple is good too.
MK
MK
Originally Posted by SeanR
Has anyone heard of a negative in the Valvoline Racing 20-50?
Use M1 in everything but the 928 and the PO used the Valvoline for the past many years.
I used Royal Purple in my 454 powered boat and was impressed but I'm still unsure in the 928.
Use M1 in everything but the 928 and the PO used the Valvoline for the past many years.
I used Royal Purple in my 454 powered boat and was impressed but I'm still unsure in the 928.
03-12-2007, 09:25 PM
#24
Originally Posted by mark kibort
we use it to break in the motors, then switch to redline, amzoil or im sure royal purple is good too.
MK
MK
03-12-2007, 10:59 PM
#25
Burning Brakes
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Hi,
SeanR - yes there are some negatives in using viscous mineral engine lubricants in a 928 used on the street. It has to do with cold flow and (perhaps) high temperature film strength (HTHS viscosity)
It is true that such oils are used in racing (and by the Porsche Museum too in some "yesterday" engines) but with careful application. It is "universally" accepted that an 80C oil temperature is mandatory for their application before loading the engine. It takes about 20 minutes of street use after a cold start at 15C to get the oil's temperature to around 80C in a 928! And that is a negative for street use
5w-40 (or 0w-40) viscosity lubricants are best for street use in a 928
Amsoil, Redline, Royal Purple and Valvoiline are not Porsche Approved in any viscosity
Of course the use of any oil is the engine owner's choice and no Brand of oil is significantly better than another!
Porken - that (Shell Rotella T 5w-40 synthetic) is one great oil in a 928!!!
Regards
SeanR - yes there are some negatives in using viscous mineral engine lubricants in a 928 used on the street. It has to do with cold flow and (perhaps) high temperature film strength (HTHS viscosity)
It is true that such oils are used in racing (and by the Porsche Museum too in some "yesterday" engines) but with careful application. It is "universally" accepted that an 80C oil temperature is mandatory for their application before loading the engine. It takes about 20 minutes of street use after a cold start at 15C to get the oil's temperature to around 80C in a 928! And that is a negative for street use
5w-40 (or 0w-40) viscosity lubricants are best for street use in a 928
Amsoil, Redline, Royal Purple and Valvoiline are not Porsche Approved in any viscosity
Of course the use of any oil is the engine owner's choice and no Brand of oil is significantly better than another!
Porken - that (Shell Rotella T 5w-40 synthetic) is one great oil in a 928!!!
Regards
03-13-2007, 01:42 AM
#27
Three Wheelin'
I don't want to sound sycophantish, but Doug Hillary's recommendations should be seriously considered. He's one of the few that offer advice based on laboratory oil analysis rather than anecdotal evidence, and not just one, but eleven of them, which puts him in a class all to himself, IMHO.
They are all posted in detail here on the 928 Forum, and there's plenty of tech discussion that, in the end, endorse his position. Search the forum for Hillary's posts and read them.
Granted, I'm no qualified critic, but unless he's going to extreme lengths with his deceit, he's the real McCoy.
They are all posted in detail here on the 928 Forum, and there's plenty of tech discussion that, in the end, endorse his position. Search the forum for Hillary's posts and read them.
Granted, I'm no qualified critic, but unless he's going to extreme lengths with his deceit, he's the real McCoy.
03-13-2007, 02:01 AM
#28
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Ill trust my experience with mobil 1 vs amzoil vs any lab tests that basically tests the condition of the oil. sure for street use, most any oil, that is changed often will work fine. dyno oils can work as well, as Mark anderson has raced EXTREMELY hard, in 140f track temps with Kendal racing oil. I have run
mobil 1 15-50 and watch it just melt to barely provide pressure to run an engine at idle, let alone at high rpms. my imperical evidence of sub 2-3 bar pressure at 260f oil temp ranges vs 5 bar for my experience with amzoil, speaks for itself. an anomoly? anderson recently raced a car simular to the holbert machine at Sebring and noticed oil pressures below 4 bar. coicedence? you decide.
my oil came back after some heavy abuse pretty close to normal. my engine has survived 5 serious full seasons (by the way, the only 928s that are running full racing seasons in the world are Mark Anderson and me), thats 70+ race days, enough WOT, high rpm beatings to equal doing the 24hours of Lemans, twice! yet, somehow the engine is in perfect condition (knock knock
)
So, as i have said, the oil tests is for oil run in normal street driving conditions.
also, i have tested the time it takes for a 928 engine to get to operational temps. (near 180f) it takes less than 12 mins, because doing my 60-100mph runs on my local hyway, i never do it unless the engine is at operational temp. the water gets to operational temp in 5 min, the oil takes 10-12 min, depending on the temp of the day. (ie 60-80 degree F days)
The fact that i have raced a multiple engines and had no issues, tells me something, that the oil is doing its job. 2 of the 5 engines i been involved with, had the #2-6 bearing pulled with no visible sign of wear. One engine had 150,000miles on it as well as 20,000miles being used for track use.
as soon as Doug shows us some tests for how these oils do there job at high temp, we will have the facts we need for the safety of these oils under demanding circumstances. how many original engines do you know of that are over 20 years old, have never been apart, and have 75 hard race days on them? Amzoil or Redline, and maybe frequently changed kendal racing oil are the only onces I would trust.
Mk
mobil 1 15-50 and watch it just melt to barely provide pressure to run an engine at idle, let alone at high rpms. my imperical evidence of sub 2-3 bar pressure at 260f oil temp ranges vs 5 bar for my experience with amzoil, speaks for itself. an anomoly? anderson recently raced a car simular to the holbert machine at Sebring and noticed oil pressures below 4 bar. coicedence? you decide.
my oil came back after some heavy abuse pretty close to normal. my engine has survived 5 serious full seasons (by the way, the only 928s that are running full racing seasons in the world are Mark Anderson and me), thats 70+ race days, enough WOT, high rpm beatings to equal doing the 24hours of Lemans, twice! yet, somehow the engine is in perfect condition (knock knock
)So, as i have said, the oil tests is for oil run in normal street driving conditions.
also, i have tested the time it takes for a 928 engine to get to operational temps. (near 180f) it takes less than 12 mins, because doing my 60-100mph runs on my local hyway, i never do it unless the engine is at operational temp. the water gets to operational temp in 5 min, the oil takes 10-12 min, depending on the temp of the day. (ie 60-80 degree F days)
The fact that i have raced a multiple engines and had no issues, tells me something, that the oil is doing its job. 2 of the 5 engines i been involved with, had the #2-6 bearing pulled with no visible sign of wear. One engine had 150,000miles on it as well as 20,000miles being used for track use.
as soon as Doug shows us some tests for how these oils do there job at high temp, we will have the facts we need for the safety of these oils under demanding circumstances. how many original engines do you know of that are over 20 years old, have never been apart, and have 75 hard race days on them? Amzoil or Redline, and maybe frequently changed kendal racing oil are the only onces I would trust.
Mk
Originally Posted by chaadster
I don't want to sound sycophantish, but Doug Hillary's recommendations should be seriously considered. He's one of the few that offer advice based on laboratory oil analysis rather than anecdotal evidence, and not just one, but eleven of them, which puts him in a class all to himself, IMHO.
They are all posted in detail here on the 928 Forum, and there's plenty of tech discussion that, in the end, endorse his position. Search the forum for Hillary's posts and read them.
Granted, I'm no qualified critic, but unless he's going to extreme lengths with his deceit, he's the real McCoy.
They are all posted in detail here on the 928 Forum, and there's plenty of tech discussion that, in the end, endorse his position. Search the forum for Hillary's posts and read them.
Granted, I'm no qualified critic, but unless he's going to extreme lengths with his deceit, he's the real McCoy.
03-13-2007, 03:42 AM
#29
Burning Brakes
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Mark,
product bashing is something I don't do - you have never said a kind word about Mobil and thats your deal. I don't work for or have any connection with any Oil Company!!!
But seriouisly do some studies on flow and pressure - I'm sure you will learn a lot if you WANT to
The 928 engine needs to show 5bar at 4-5ooorpm with the oil at 80C +. Oil pressure at hot idle is usually 1.5 to 2.5bar if you are`using the correct viscosity lubricant. Any more and the lubricant will likely be bypassing at much over around 4500rpm. Most 928s will show 4+bar around 2200rpm
Anyway Mark perhaps it is time you stopped bashing a good product - IMHO you lesson your good image by doing it!
My matrix on normal use coolant and oil temperatures goes back five years and hundreds of IR readings
Regards
product bashing is something I don't do - you have never said a kind word about Mobil and thats your deal. I don't work for or have any connection with any Oil Company!!!
But seriouisly do some studies on flow and pressure - I'm sure you will learn a lot if you WANT to
The 928 engine needs to show 5bar at 4-5ooorpm with the oil at 80C +. Oil pressure at hot idle is usually 1.5 to 2.5bar if you are`using the correct viscosity lubricant. Any more and the lubricant will likely be bypassing at much over around 4500rpm. Most 928s will show 4+bar around 2200rpm
Anyway Mark perhaps it is time you stopped bashing a good product - IMHO you lesson your good image by doing it!
My matrix on normal use coolant and oil temperatures goes back five years and hundreds of IR readings
Regards
03-13-2007, 04:15 AM
#30
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I have a clacking hydraulic valve with Mobil 1...totally went away with Redline. 'also more prone to leaks tthough that't not a problem since i put in new seals. Check with Redline distributor..some weird places stock it;
Harvey
Harvey