stuartph

Nick / Alex


Where are you planning on fitting the oil tank and am i right in thinking that they have a vent on top ?

Could you inform me on a price for the sump pan

Jim bailey - 928 International

The oil tank does need a vent on a street car running it back into the intake is the green solution on a race car it just vents up into a length of hose fitted with a mesh filter on the end higher than the tank .

drnick

stuart, i am planning on putting mine in the back passenger seat space. im not yet convinced that there is enough space in the front wings to site a tank large enough for the 928 engine but im no kind of expert at all on this and would take advice from pace on appropriate tank volume and shape..

at the end of the day for me, ive never been happy about the accusump as a solution for the 928 oiling problems even though others are using them reliably.. i just want my engine drysumped.

stuartph

Nick


I know a dry sump is the way to go, i think somewhere in the boot is gonna be the place for me for the oil tank, all it needs a good head scratching session

drnick

still no word from pace on the final spec and price, im chasing them up..

928SS

any word on tank specs for perhaps using the space from the large washer tank (older cars only) or keeping the AC and airpump yet??

drnick

this is the reply i have just had from pace unfortunately as its not what id hoped for. i had hoped they would sell their kits direct or sell the pan as an independant unit but unfortunately not. the only option here is to use 'gantspeed' an obscure uk based workshop better known for there work on very early air-cooled cars and now also owners of several 928 drysumps which they have commisioned from pace. last i heard they are wanting in the region of £2500 for this setup which is too deep for my pockets aside from a fundamental objection to paying a markup on such a low volume item. in my opinion there isnt sufficient market for a 928 drysump to sustain a middleman.

so sorry about that guys, i had thought we were on to something here as far as a complete kit goes, and for those of you who dont mind the price then good luck too! otherwise the prices and parts might be of interest.

Hi Nick,

cannot apologise enough ref the delay..... no excuses just very busy.

We have given careful consideration to supplying complete kits.
The bulk of the conversations with possible customers have been prity much the same in so much that they wish to create their own sump pan, in fact they wish to create as much of the system that they can in an effort to reduce costs.

We have therefore decided to deal through Gant Speed regarding complete dry sump kits, where we modify the sumps as part of the kit.
We'll just see how it all goes with them.

We can however supply various parts direct to customers:

A two stage pure scavenge B.G pump, each stage flowing 25ltrs per 1000 pump rpm including the in (2 x -12)inlets /outlet (1 x -16) fittings.
£390.00

38tooth conned pump pulley £93.00
or a 38t ally blank that you machine to suit £47.00

28t steel crank pulley £82.00
or a 28t steel cut blank that you machine to suit £47.00

From then on we could supply:

Oil tanks less 10%
Vent tanks less 10%
Hoses less 20% and Fittings less 20%
Should you need any parts to help ref sump construction ie; filter assy etc please ask.

Please allow approx 3 weeks from order to delivery.
Should you wish to order please either fax 01440 765049 or 'e' mail, might pay you to call just to confirm that you've sent an order............

Regards
Neil.

928SS

not too bad maybe...

FYI, heres a conversation I've been having for a roots style pump, ck out the link for it at their website... it's 30% lighter, and uses the same design as the LS1 motors, and can pull up to 20" of vacume!!! might have to ck the seals for that much, but it can be regulated down


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Bill Dailey [mailto:info@daileyengineering.com]
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 7:51 AM
To: Actman@myinfoware.com
Subject: Re: Info


Rob,

The pan is as shallow as the rod swing allows. Typically if you look at the tip of the rod bolt in the lowest position, add some clearance and .10" thickness for the pan and thats it.

Bill
_____________________________
Bill Dailey
Dailey Engineering
42095 Zevo Dr. #7
Temecula, CA 92590
Ph. 951-296-2110
Fax 951-296-2111
bill@daileyengineering.com
www.daileyengineering.com
_____________________________
----- Original Message -----
From: Actman
To: 'Bill Dailey'
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 9:51 AM
Subject: RE: Info


I noticed that after I asked... thx..

only issue I guess I see is the lower crossmember - it's only 1" from the stock pan which is a rather shallow pan already... how much vertical clearance does this setup require from the crank?? I've already aggrevated the issue by using a custom crank at 95mm stroke vs the OEM 78mm stroke... there's about 1 gasket of clearance btween the pan and crank now..... as you can imagine - w/8 qts of oil and 6200rpms - it's a bit foamy at times...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Bill Dailey [mailto:info@daileyengineering.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 5:40 PM
To: Actman@myinfoware.com
Subject: Re: Info


The roots style is a great air pump which is why superchargers use them. We get the benifit of oil to help seal them. A typical 5 stage pump I would use on your application can pull well in the 20" Hg range. It mostly depends on what kind of main seals are used and how good the engine builders is.

Bill
_____________________________
Bill Dailey
Dailey Engineering
42095 Zevo Dr. #7
Temecula, CA 92590
Ph. 951-296-2110
Fax 951-296-2111
bill@daileyengineering.com
www.daileyengineering.com
_____________________________
----- Original Message -----
From: Actman
To: 'Bill Dailey'
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 11:30 AM
Subject: RE: Info


thx!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Bill Dailey [mailto:info@daileyengineering.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 11:17 AM
To: actman@myinfoware.com
Subject: Re: Info


Rob,

Nothing to date for the 928. Here's the scenario to make something. If there is a possbility as far as design goes the pan cost would be similar to my LS1 design. This pan goes for $1650. Cost varies as the size and thickness of goes up. The pump starts at $1870. If you only buy one pan there is a $1000 tooling and programming fee. If you buy 2 it is $500 and 3 the fee is waived.

To design it I would need the interface details for the pan rail and would work with you on where we can position the pump. time frame is usually 6-8 weeks to make something happen.

Bill
_____________________________
Bill Dailey
Dailey Engineering
42095 Zevo Dr. #7
Temecula, CA 92590
Ph. 951-296-2110
Fax 951-296-2111
bill@daileyengineering.com
www.daileyengineering.com

svp928

Rob, I don't think you need the 5-stage pump Bill is talking about- if you use the stock oil pump as your pressure pump and don't scavenge the heads, you only need 2 scavenge sections for the pan. Devek's new pan would work. Also, Dailey makes a really good air/oil separator that would allow a much smaller oil tank to be used.
Dailey makes VERY good pumps, and is what the engine builders I know use...

Steve

928SS

thx! devek is still testing the prototype/could be a while, and Dennis's design might allow us to keep the air pump... but I'm open to whatever as long as I can appease the smog nazies, pull 10"-12" of vacume for some decent HP gains and cure track/oiling issues properly.

must admit, just replacing the air pump is a less expensive, perfect/easy location for the DS Pump, but I still need to feed the cats w/some clean air... any idea how clean the air coming out of the A/O seperator is?? ie clean enough and enough flow to feed the cats w/out nasty side effects??

Mike Simard

I like the idea of a roots style scavenge pump built into and oil pan, anything to eleminate plumbing would be nice. The rootes style scavenge makes good sense for us with our stock gerotor pump for pressure but 20+ inches of vacuum and 5 stages? Yikes, that sounds extreme, 2 of those rootes scavenge stages should suck enough and alot more than a gear style anyway. A billet pan like Devek's would be nice and add some strength to the block too, if only Marc had pans with built in pumps, ahh...

928SS

I'm sure we could easily regulate the vacume in several ways (less stages, pump size, regulator on the inlet, etc) I might try to find a junk pan/block/motor for mockup purposes and see what he thinks/discover how feasible it is for a street/track setup... seems to work well on the chebys

I'd guess a decent dry sump would cure most of the FI blowby issues as well as track oiling issues w/one solution, so it seems if it's streetable too there'd be some demand... if we built enough of them the price would be reasonable.

John Veninger

What is considered reasonable?

928SS

guess that's price elasticity in a nutshell, prolly different for everyone. but given a stroker costs up to 20k to build, I'd guess around $2500-$4500 might be reasonable if it insures it doesn't grenede due to oil issues and if it gives as much as 40chp or so for a 6.5L

should also help raise the rev limit a bit, which opens the door for a lot more HP w/the right cams/springs/lifters/ports/etc... course there's still that block splitting power limit, but a DS kinda paves the way to oblivion

svp928

Dailey's 2-stage scavenge is $715, and the air/oil separator is $500. I think Devek's pan is around $1500. Guessing $500 for plumbing and a tank, you are around $2500. Not that bad...
You might ask Mark Anderson if his pan guy will make more of the pan Mark is running, and how much? That pan is fabricated instead of machined from billet, so it may be less.
I have not asked Dailey about recommendations for a tank.
And, even with a dry sump, I'd do the drilling mod on the stock crank.

Oblivion, here we come....