Help! How far can Xmission be lowered b4 Something breaks?
01-09-2007, 08:55 PM
#1
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Help! How far can Xmission be lowered b4 Something breaks?
Hi I am trying to get to the top bolts on the rear of the torque tube, so that I can pull the trans back and remove the torque converter housing to replace the bearings (they're NOISY). The trans and crossmember are hanging on 2 threaded rods in the two inside crossmember mounting holes. So far I have lowered it about 6" and I still can't get to the two top bolts. How far can I lower the trans before I break something like an engine mount? I did remove the front sway bar under the hood and the air cleaner box.
Thanks
KK
PS early 86 slushbox
Thanks
KK
PS early 86 slushbox
01-09-2007, 09:28 PM
#2
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It is possible to remove TT and TC housing without lowering trans. at all. Although it is not per the manual. If you cut out the small section of bellhousing below shaft at front it makes a world of difference for removal.
01-09-2007, 10:09 PM
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If you cut out the small section of bellhousing below shaft at front it makes a world of difference for removal.
I'm glad I know what I'm doing when it comes to mechanicals...'specially 928's. I would hate to hear about someone who took there car to a mechanic like you who likes to just cut stuff out of the way for personal ease.Anybody else out there performing this kind of procedure on their own car???
Anyway KK, you can lower the tranny/final drive pretty far down as the pivot points are the motor mounts. I wouldn't/never had to go too far as I was able to get my 1/2" drive tools over the TT to get to the bolts. As long as you have removed all else you are suposed to, you will be just fine. Make sure that when you have the bolts out, raise the tranny back up to take the load off the splined shaft. This will alow you to "work" the housing off with relative easy. If you find yourself jerking and pulling ridiculously hard, then you are not at the correct angle and there is still pressure on the shaft.
Also, since you are removing the unit(s), make the extra effort to replace the TC seal and the pump seal and gasket. All very cheap replacements while it is all out.
Lastly, send you TC to Edge Racing to increase the stall speed on your TC and put a bit more power to the pavement. This is a cheap performance upgrade WYIT.
Best of luck!
01-09-2007, 10:10 PM
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It seems like more than enough to remove the top bolts. Find a angled offset box wrench 12 pt. Look at Sears, as I recall they have them. Remove the front TT bolts and pull the trans back to the gas tank and that will give more room.
01-09-2007, 10:15 PM
#6
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Originally Posted by 928ntslow
I'm glad I know what I'm doing when it comes to mechanicals...'specially 928's. I would hate to hear about someone who took there car to a mechanic like you who likes to just cut stuff out of the way for personal ease.Anybody else out there performing this kind of procedure on their own car???
Anyway KK, you can lower the tranny/final drive pretty far down as the pivot points are the motor mounts. I wouldn't/never had to go too far as I was able to get my 1/2" drive tools over the TT to get to the bolts. As long as you have removed all else you are suposed to, you will be just fine. Make sure that when you have the bolts out, raise the tranny back up to take the load off the splined shaft. This will alow you to "work" the housing off with relative easy. If you find yourself jerking and pulling ridiculously hard, then you are not at the correct angle and there is still pressure on the shaft.
Also, since you are removing the unit(s), make the extra effort to replace the TC seal and the pump seal and gasket. All very cheap replacements while it is all out.
Lastly, send you TC to Edge Racing to increase the stall speed on your TC and put a bit more power to the pavement. This is a cheap performance upgrade WYIT.
Best of luck!
01-09-2007, 10:28 PM
#7
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Please enlighten me then, as this is the first I have heard of this. If others are doing this, then I would like to see how it is done and how it is "buttoned" back up. I would think fatigue of the bell housing over time, would be an issue from this as well. The TT is attached here and the twisting ...well...
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01-09-2007, 10:37 PM
#8
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Originally Posted by 928ntslow
Please enlighten me then, as this is the first I have heard of this. If others are doing this, then I would like to see how it is done and how it is "buttoned" back up. I would think fatigue of the bell housing over time, would be an issue from this as well. The TT is attached here and the twisting ...well...
01-09-2007, 11:31 PM
#9
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Hey kaptnknemo,
We did mine, but the TT was all the way out
I don’t think IcemanG17 “Brian’s” has been cut, we pulled my TT without lowering the tranny. We loosened it and shoved it back as far as we could. I also changed the Torque Converter Bearings. We managed to do the job without cutting the bell housing
Links to the thread with photos
Drive Train failure! it's the "Torque Tube" Photos posted
Toque Tube Replacement Date is 4/8 for edco's 91 S4 Update - TT Removed Photos Added
Torque Converter Bearings How or where to get them pressed
SharkSkin guide to removing the top bolts on my car
The photo below is from Bill Ball and shows where you would have to cut the bell housing
We did mine, but the TT was all the way out
I don’t think IcemanG17 “Brian’s” has been cut, we pulled my TT without lowering the tranny. We loosened it and shoved it back as far as we could. I also changed the Torque Converter Bearings. We managed to do the job without cutting the bell housing
Links to the thread with photosDrive Train failure! it's the "Torque Tube" Photos posted
Toque Tube Replacement Date is 4/8 for edco's 91 S4 Update - TT Removed Photos Added
Torque Converter Bearings How or where to get them pressed
SharkSkin guide to removing the top bolts on my car
Originally Posted by SharkSkin
Hey guys, finally made it back to the keyboard... It's definitely an interesting project, and the experimental aspect appealed to me as well. I've attached a few of the pics I took, you guys all owe me a beer for leaving out the group mugshot... 
It all went as Bill said, pretty straightforward wrenching for the most part. The two bolts on the side of the TC housing were the biggest single PITA. We had to saw a hex key short end down to about 1/2" to break them loose. Then a long 6mm 12 point box wrench on the removed section of hex key was used to get the tiny increments of bolt-turning getting the tension relieved. Finally, that sawed-off section of hex key in a universal socket, on a 3" (1/4") extension, then a 3" long 1/4" flex, then another 3" extension (IIRC) was needed to spin the bolts out. Really, no other tool would work. There wasn't enough room to get a standard 3/8" drive 6mm hex wrench onto the bolts, much less attach a ratchet to it. There was not enough room to swing the hex key far enough to get another bite on the bolt. But by prying the trans to either side and using the tools mentioned, Bill got them out with no room to spare.
BTW, getting the top rear bolts off the TT involved maybe 3 feet of 1/2" extensions strung together, which wound up about 1/6 of a turn when trying to break the bolts free. Made for a big jolt when they broke loose, but we got 'em!
Looking forward to the "assembly is the reverse of disassembly" phase.
I'm sure it will go back together easier, since we're sure to have less hardware. 
I've attached a few of the pics I took, you guys all owe me a beer for leaving out the group mugshot... It all went as Bill said, pretty straightforward wrenching for the most part. The two bolts on the side of the TC housing were the biggest single PITA. We had to saw a hex key short end down to about 1/2" to break them loose. Then a long 6mm 12 point box wrench on the removed section of hex key was used to get the tiny increments of bolt-turning getting the tension relieved. Finally, that sawed-off section of hex key in a universal socket, on a 3" (1/4") extension, then a 3" long 1/4" flex, then another 3" extension (IIRC) was needed to spin the bolts out. Really, no other tool would work. There wasn't enough room to get a standard 3/8" drive 6mm hex wrench onto the bolts, much less attach a ratchet to it. There was not enough room to swing the hex key far enough to get another bite on the bolt. But by prying the trans to either side and using the tools mentioned, Bill got them out with no room to spare.
BTW, getting the top rear bolts off the TT involved maybe 3 feet of 1/2" extensions strung together, which wound up about 1/6 of a turn when trying to break the bolts free. Made for a big jolt when they broke loose, but we got 'em!
Looking forward to the "assembly is the reverse of disassembly" phase.
I'm sure it will go back together easier, since we're sure to have less hardware. The photo below is from Bill Ball and shows where you would have to cut the bell housing
Last edited by edco; 02-07-2013 at 02:08 AM.
01-09-2007, 11:42 PM
#10
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edco you are correct. I made an incorrect referral due to a quick search. Sorry Iceman. The section you posted is what I have removed numerous times with no adverse effects.
01-09-2007, 11:42 PM
#11
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Originally Posted by 928ntslow
I'm glad I know what I'm doing when it comes to mechanicals...'specially 928's. I would hate to hear about someone who took there car to a mechanic like you who likes to just cut stuff out of the way for personal ease.Anybody else out there performing this kind of procedure on their own car???
Anyway KK, you can lower the tranny/final drive pretty far down as the pivot points are the motor mounts. I wouldn't/never had to go too far as I was able to get my 1/2" drive tools over the TT to get to the bolts. As long as you have removed all else you are suposed to, you will be just fine. Make sure that when you have the bolts out, raise the tranny back up to take the load off the splined shaft. This will alow you to "work" the housing off with relative easy. If you find yourself jerking and pulling ridiculously hard, then you are not at the correct angle and there is still pressure on the shaft.
Also, since you are removing the unit(s), make the extra effort to replace the TC seal and the pump seal and gasket. All very cheap replacements while it is all out.
Lastly, send you TC to Edge Racing to increase the stall speed on your TC and put a bit more power to the pavement. This is a cheap performance upgrade WYIT.
Best of luck!
01-10-2007, 03:11 AM
#12
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Boy that was an adventure! Cutting that piece out might technically make for a weaker overall assembly but that would be mitigated somewhat by the high clamping force of the bellhousing rear flange to the TT and the lower bellhousing. Just the same, none of us present that day seriously considered cutting the bellhousing.
It may be strong enough with that piece cut out, but it's *definitely* strong enough with that piece left in. I for one don't mind working around(rather than cutting) something that seems stronger than it needs to be. Especially when it comes to the core structure of the car.
It may be strong enough with that piece cut out, but it's *definitely* strong enough with that piece left in. I for one don't mind working around(rather than cutting) something that seems stronger than it needs to be. Especially when it comes to the core structure of the car.
01-10-2007, 05:01 AM
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Thanks Dave, that's another way of saying it. It was never intended to be done that way and I still maintain that you will never see a procedure like this performed on any of my cars! There is always a smarter and proper way to approach something, not just hack it off to make it easy. Sorry if it sounds like I am directing this at you Bill, I just don't agree.
Dropping the rear end is not difficult. I have done it enough times that I can have the tranny out on the ground within 2 hours...by myself. I did a write up on this on the SOCAL board sometime back. I think I even recall the WSM showing a procedure or two out of sequence for the removal. This is primnarily in reference to the P-brake cable and the CV's at the final drive, but that is insignificant to this issue.
Anyway, frequency, vibration and flex on cast aluminum parts are detrimental. Removing any adjoining pieces along the drive train certainly cannot be recommended. I hope we never hear about any ill effects or affects from this.
Bill, if I recall correctly, this was a coupling/flexplate issue you had. Wasn't something stripped? I seem to remember some strange event had happned.... Sorry I forget.
BTW, it is evident that there are two types of people that work on cars. The ones who do it to just get it done and the other who enjoy doing the job and doing it the best it can be done.
Dropping the rear end is not difficult. I have done it enough times that I can have the tranny out on the ground within 2 hours...by myself. I did a write up on this on the SOCAL board sometime back. I think I even recall the WSM showing a procedure or two out of sequence for the removal. This is primnarily in reference to the P-brake cable and the CV's at the final drive, but that is insignificant to this issue.
Anyway, frequency, vibration and flex on cast aluminum parts are detrimental. Removing any adjoining pieces along the drive train certainly cannot be recommended. I hope we never hear about any ill effects or affects from this.
Bill, if I recall correctly, this was a coupling/flexplate issue you had. Wasn't something stripped? I seem to remember some strange event had happned.... Sorry I forget.
BTW, it is evident that there are two types of people that work on cars. The ones who do it to just get it done and the other who enjoy doing the job and doing it the best it can be done.
01-10-2007, 05:40 AM
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Can drop the tranny and X member without disconnecting the handbrake cable (aka e brake or p brake) just rotate the X member out of the way.
can't see a way of doing it without removing the CV joint bolts from the tranny though.
can't see a way of doing it without removing the CV joint bolts from the tranny though.