Bulding 928 drift car
10-09-2006, 02:08 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
Jim, maybe I'm just too old to appreciate how bouncing off the revlimiter sounds "good"... I wince whenever I hear that. Most of the people I know who are -- shall we say "not so young" -- consider the revlimiter to be something that kicks in when you screw up. It's not intended to be used constantly and is not good for the engine to do so. I can see from your post that you are of a similar mind... I just had to say something because I think it would be a shame to see a shark abused this way.
10-09-2006, 02:21 PM
#19
Craic Head
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Sharkskin,
I agree. You have to do some pretty destructive things to a car to make it do that, and you'd really have to go some to make a 928 handle that badly. Every atom of the vehicle is designed to hold the road and go fast (in style, of course), not slide. The weight distribution is all wrong for that.
I agree. You have to do some pretty destructive things to a car to make it do that, and you'd really have to go some to make a 928 handle that badly. Every atom of the vehicle is designed to hold the road and go fast (in style, of course), not slide. The weight distribution is all wrong for that.
10-09-2006, 02:34 PM
#20
Rennlist Member
Mike, one of the cars that all drifters 
, the AE86 Corolla ("Hachi-Roku") has nearly 50-50 weight distribution, so it's not just about the weight distribution. On the surface, one might think that the 928 would be equally ideal because of it's 50-50 weight distribution. The difference is the AE86 has a relatively small polar moment of inertia, while the 928's is relatively large. This is the key difference that makes it harder to pitch a 928 out and hard to rein it in when you go too far. Good for us, bad for drifters.
, the AE86 Corolla ("Hachi-Roku") has nearly 50-50 weight distribution, so it's not just about the weight distribution. On the surface, one might think that the 928 would be equally ideal because of it's 50-50 weight distribution. The difference is the AE86 has a relatively small polar moment of inertia, while the 928's is relatively large. This is the key difference that makes it harder to pitch a 928 out and hard to rein it in when you go too far. Good for us, bad for drifters.
10-09-2006, 02:49 PM
#21
Craic Head
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Dave,
I stand corrected. I admit I know nothing about drifting. But I do know that the way the 928 handles makes it much more difficult to 'break loose' as it seems to keep trying to grab the road even after the wheels break loose. I've driven several cars that you could pretty much whip around any way you like once you got them to spin the tires, but these cars don't lend themselves well to that at all.
Besides, it's just wrong.
I stand corrected. I admit I know nothing about drifting. But I do know that the way the 928 handles makes it much more difficult to 'break loose' as it seems to keep trying to grab the road even after the wheels break loose. I've driven several cars that you could pretty much whip around any way you like once you got them to spin the tires, but these cars don't lend themselves well to that at all.
Besides, it's just wrong.
10-09-2006, 03:14 PM
#23
Administrator - "Tyson"
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Originally Posted by SharkSkin
This is the key difference that makes it harder to pitch a 928 out and hard to rein it in when you go too far. Good for us, bad for drifters.
When I added the 10" 997 wheels with new rubber, kicking the rear end out became a bit harder (in any gear but 1st, still a granny gear IMO). I've never owned a car that was more fun to kick around "dirt track" style than my 79. Yea yea, call me reckless. I will be taking my 79 drifting next year, I'll try and have someone video the event.
10-09-2006, 03:32 PM
#24
I don't really know that much about drifting, but it seems like it's about a lot of oversteer. It's generally a lot easier to turbocharge a normally aspirated car that came in a turbocharged version from the factory. Cars that have a higher production number are usually easier to modify, because there are more people doing it, and because there are likely to be more aftermarket and performance parts readily available. As Jim mentioned, drifting seems to be a lot about style points. Big rear wings seem to be pretty popular with a lot of the import crowd that's into drifting, so I'd guess that might be helpful for the style points.
It seems like a good candidate for a drift car along those lines would have been if Porsche would have made a car that was produced in greater numbers than the 928, that came in a turbocharged version as stock, that has more performance parts available than the 928, that either came with a big rear wing or had readily available big rear wings that would easily fit right on, that already had an inherent tendency towards oversteer, and maybe had a good bit of weight in the rear to help get the back end out.
It seems like a good candidate for a drift car along those lines would have been if Porsche would have made a car that was produced in greater numbers than the 928, that came in a turbocharged version as stock, that has more performance parts available than the 928, that either came with a big rear wing or had readily available big rear wings that would easily fit right on, that already had an inherent tendency towards oversteer, and maybe had a good bit of weight in the rear to help get the back end out.
10-09-2006, 03:44 PM
#25
Rennlist Member
GeaBaldy, While I'm not a huge fan of drifting, it can be fun to watch and if you hang out with enough gerheads it's inevitable that some of the vernacular will be picked up. I used to sit in a cube just across from a guy who was totally into this stuff.... He had(has?) a corolla in Initial D colors, turbo'ed & making 350-ish RWHP. He always had either that or his EVO undergoing some kind of upgrade/repair. Actually a very smart guy, one of the 1% I indirectly referred to above that does NOT ride the revlimiter. Pretty active in SCCA Auto-X, too.
Hacker, I should have clarified I guess -- I was speaking from more hearsay than personal experience, though I have played around a bit in the wet and have found that once it's pitched out enough that you're at opposite lock it can be tricky to pull it back in. There have been posts here and on Pelican about how there really is a point of no return that's less pitched than some other cars. Of course a good driver can work with it, and my comments were meant to address differences relative to cars that seem to be preferred for drifting. It's like saying that it's harder to control traction when all-out accelerating from a stop in an F1 car than in a shark -- and of course it is -- but that's not meant to imply that people don't manage to do so regularly.
I used to sit in a cube just across from a guy who was totally into this stuff.... He had(has?) a corolla in Initial D colors, turbo'ed & making 350-ish RWHP. He always had either that or his EVO undergoing some kind of upgrade/repair. Actually a very smart guy, one of the 1% I indirectly referred to above that does NOT ride the revlimiter. Pretty active in SCCA Auto-X, too.Hacker, I should have clarified I guess -- I was speaking from more hearsay than personal experience, though I have played around a bit in the wet and have found that once it's pitched out enough that you're at opposite lock it can be tricky to pull it back in. There have been posts here and on Pelican about how there really is a point of no return that's less pitched than some other cars. Of course a good driver can work with it, and my comments were meant to address differences relative to cars that seem to be preferred for drifting. It's like saying that it's harder to control traction when all-out accelerating from a stop in an F1 car than in a shark -- and of course it is -- but that's not meant to imply that people don't manage to do so regularly.
10-09-2006, 04:27 PM
#27
Pro
Originally Posted by EspenT
Hi everyone.
This is my first post on this forum. I have read a lot of the posts in here, and have learned a lot. But i still have a lot more questions. It seems like very few people here build their own engine setup. Why is everyone buying supercharger kits instead of making thir own setup?
This is my first post on this forum. I have read a lot of the posts in here, and have learned a lot. But i still have a lot more questions. It seems like very few people here build their own engine setup. Why is everyone buying supercharger kits instead of making thir own setup?
I'm Norwegian too, and I am building my own supercharger system (for the heck of it..!) I am not trying to reach the hp numbers you are hoping for, maybe half of that (to begin with at least).
I am using a 85 S3 engine (US 32V 5.0L) with a Lysholm AX3300 supercharger and a air/air intercooler.
There are a lot of knowledge among 944 owners in Norway, you are aware that the 944 engine is in effect half a 928 engine? The norwegian Porsche Club is a good place to start, ask for a guy named Bjørn (Skunkworkz), he takes on porting work and regrinding of camshafts. I know they are even experimenting with steel cylinders but be warned that these types of setups has caused a lot of problems in the past.
I believe the 928 should be excellent as a drifter car, and I think a higly modified 928 would be good for the 928 image, no matter if its a street car, race car or a drifter.
In what part of Norway do you live?
Ian
10-09-2006, 04:44 PM
#28
No, I think the 928 would be a GREAT drift car. With the torque the stock cars have, and some 225s or so on the back, and maybe wider on the front, you could hang that tail for hours.
Oh, for slick tires - try cooper. My S2000 came with them and they were like ICE after 2 laps at Streets if Willow.
Oh, for slick tires - try cooper. My S2000 came with them and they were like ICE after 2 laps at Streets if Willow.
10-09-2006, 05:09 PM
#29
Track Day
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I live 70km north of Oslo.
We might have overshoot on the hp estimate.. It was based entirely on how many hp you get for each litre of engine displacement on a volvo or audi, etc.. It might be that one litre of Volvo produces more power than one litre of porsche.
We had planed to build new intake and exhaust manifolds.. Replace the pistons with low cr ones.
Forged rods, if the rods is a week point. Balance the internals. Then we would find two not to large turboes.. Just enough to reach 20psi. k24 with internal wastegate or something like that..
To control everything we are going to use the dta with direct fire and sequential injection.
As people here talks about oiling isuses we probably have to ad dry symp to the list.
We don't know drifting wery good ourself. But we know the basics of how to drive a car.. And the more power we got, the easyer it wil be to control the drift.. Personaly, I don't like to hit the rev limiter myself.. That's why drivers use shiftlights.. Also the porsches good road grip is something that we want. If drift gets out of control we want the car to stop drifting as soon as we lift the trottle.
We might have overshoot on the hp estimate.. It was based entirely on how many hp you get for each litre of engine displacement on a volvo or audi, etc.. It might be that one litre of Volvo produces more power than one litre of porsche.
We had planed to build new intake and exhaust manifolds.. Replace the pistons with low cr ones.
Forged rods, if the rods is a week point. Balance the internals. Then we would find two not to large turboes.. Just enough to reach 20psi. k24 with internal wastegate or something like that..
To control everything we are going to use the dta with direct fire and sequential injection.
As people here talks about oiling isuses we probably have to ad dry symp to the list.
We don't know drifting wery good ourself. But we know the basics of how to drive a car.. And the more power we got, the easyer it wil be to control the drift.. Personaly, I don't like to hit the rev limiter myself.. That's why drivers use shiftlights.. Also the porsches good road grip is something that we want. If drift gets out of control we want the car to stop drifting as soon as we lift the trottle.
10-09-2006, 05:20 PM
#30
Rest in Peace
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Bird lover in Sharpsburg
Posts: 9,903
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Originally Posted by EspenT
It might be that one litre of Volvo produces more power than one litre of porsche.