Jim bailey - 928 International

This greatly puzzles me. Sunday I was instructing at the Streets of Willow 1.8 mile road course speeds of up to 110 mph with many slower corners I lap at about 1 minute 38 seconds. The student has an 89 S-4 5 speed so I spent over an hour riding with him in 4 lapping sessions but did not drive his car BUT it seemed to be handling pretty well with Bilstein/Eibach if anything I would have liked to have seen it slightly stiffer. I of course ran my own sessions in the old very brown 1980 with Eibachs car weighs about 3100 worked well for me won my class and set a class record time. Last Tuesday I was at BIG Willow2.5 mile 9 turn course with the very brown and it was GREAT on the big high speed sweepers so little drama that it was almost boring waiting for a tighter corner where I actually had to drive The comment that Nicole's car exhibits similar twitchiness ?????

BC

Has there been an opportunity to have the tie rods taken off the spindle carrier, and pulled and pushed? My 200k 86 has a full 1/4 inch of play at the big end of the tie rod, and it was more direct in steering then the new-racked 85 auto.

The twichiness could be an additional symptom that the newer shocks/springs are SHOWING you, about another part of the car.

Bill Ball

I guess the best descriptor is a jiggly ride. Pushed hard in corners it may be fine, but daily road manners are not good, and response to pavement irregularities, both small and big, is not very competent. It was noticeable right off (and I mentioned it right after I installed the combo). I wouldn't make much out of it if I hadn't driven George's Koni/stock spring setup - smooth and controlled regardless of the circumstance, over the same roads. I'm not blaming the Bilstein/Eibachs for my car's current behavior. Wait until I take care of the 170K mile old bushings and perhaps the rack and balljoints, even if I have no good evidence they are bad.

Bill Ball

Based on everything anybody I know locally knows, the tie rods, balljoints and rack are tight. The car has had a number of people, pushing, pulling on the wheels, tugging on the balljoints with various implements. Nothing yet. Wait until I replace the bushings.

dr bob

Bill--

I know this may sound stupid, but...

Borrow a set of KNOWN GOOD tires and wheels to try on your car. You are signing up for a lot of work changing bushings/ball joints/shocks/springs. I've expereinced more than a few cars that were loose and squishy, only to find redemption with different tires. I remember that you are using your favorite tires, a known good brand for you. Nonetheless, it takes half an hour to swap another set onto your car and then off again.

heinrich

Interesting observation Bob. Bill, what are your offsets and tyre sizes?

Bill Ball

dr. bob:

I'm using two sets of wheels and tires with no noticeable difference in behavior. For racing, I am using the stock wheels that came with the car and the front tires have been on them for 2 years and are about half worn. The rears were new in May, but the same type I have used for years (Yoko ES100). The amount of movement up and down can't be tires. The weird changes in direction and wallowing under side loading in long sweepers could be added to by soft sidewalls. But then I have this harsh jitteriness otherwise. Eh.

Regardless, George has offered the same idea, using his wheels and tires. If we can get together I will do this, but I'm already committed to the bushing replacement.

bcdavis

Bad/bouncy springs will quickly wear out even brand new shocks.

anonymousagain

"...but I'm already committed to the bushing replacement." Run Forest, Run...!!!!

Boy, you sure didn't waste any time Bill, but I know it's been lingering in the back of your mind since the 1st alignment guys comments and nothing has corrected it yet.

As always, if you need addt'l hands just let me know and I'll do what I can to shoot over.

Warren928

Bill,
All the bushings will definately be due for a change if they are all original. I have heard countless times about different people transforming their rides into a great handling vehicle with the changing of all the suspension and steering bushings. I think this is mandatory for you consideirng the speed you drive at. I have seen a sway bar mounting bolt and end bolts that had a sheath over it and it had cracked and was not appparent visibly but displayed unusual handling characteristics.

Its also hard to tell when joints are bad because when the car is lifted there is a certain amount of load on it even when the wheel is in the air. So prying on it may not show a discernable amount of play.

Bill Ball

Warren: I appreciate the encouragement about the bushings and the advice to examine the joints and swaybar mounts more thoroughly.

bc: good point. The first set of Konis sure went to hell fast. The springs should have been OK, but I think they weren't and I hope to look at them directly this weekend. I have those coilovers lying against the wall and plan to disassemble them and determine the spring rate.

anon: I'm not sure there will be much opportunity for help with this task. I plan to lay the car up and do this a little at a time over a couple of weeks. Thanks.

johnf95111

Hey Bill,

Let me know if I can be of service during your rubber replacement.

Cheers,

John Fagerlund
'89GT

Bill Ball

I might need a 20 ton press from the looks of some of the WSM instructions.

heinrich

Come to Wsashington ... we have obese women

SharkSkin

Bill, HF has one I was eying for $75. Floor footprint ~24" x 16" IIRC.