Jerome Craig

Chris,

I’d like to send a very loud "shout out" to your wife and daughters. Your wife: for her patience - what with all of the cars and mess in the driveway and garage, and us coming in and out to use the "perpetually clean" bathroom; and to your daughters for taking our food orders and bringing us "free" lemonade.

I’d also like to say that Dave has got to be applauded for his “stick-to-it-ness” and can do attitude in the face of ever escalating problems. About the only thing that went smoothly for him was that his car didn’t fall off the jack stands! Throughout his ordeal, Dave never seemed to lose hope, he never gave up and he never lost his poise.

Dave – u da man!

Bill Grabner: You faced a lot of problems yourself, but they seemed to revolve around one area - the tensioner and the condition of your cam gears. I still think that a wheel cylinder hone might be worth a try before you spend $800+ on a new tensioner assembly - see Dr.Bob's post. Hey its worth a try.

Here are a couple of lessons I think we all may have learned – or – relearned.
1. Everything takes three to four times longer than you think it will take
2. You’ll never have ALL of the right tools
3. Sometimes a piece of wood and a heavy object to hit it with, is exactly the tool you should use
4. The last bolt/screw/pulley/belt will most likely be the source of your next problem
5. The parts you were told you wouldn’t need – are exactly the ones you will need
6. Even 928s from the same production year have different sized screws and bolts
7. Your ability to remember where everything came from is inversely proportional to how many hours you’ve been working on the car
8. As a helper – always let the car’s owner break things, that way they’re not mad at you – it’s something you’ve just got to have a feel for
9. As the day wears on and the frustrations mount the people who came to lend “moral support” are invaluable, they help you keep things in perspective
10. When it’s hot and you’re working on a car and things aren’t gong exactly to plan – WATER is better than beer.

Bill Sanders – we couldn’t have done it (whatever “it” was that we did) without you! Thanks for the sage advice and help.

Jerome

Jerome Craig

Let's not forget John - BeerFish and John - Tomcat. They did an oil change on BeerFish's "84 Euro - KIKN928 and finally got that hood on straight!

LaughaC

Good points, Jerome. I would also like to thank Richard Bauman of DC Automotive for loaning us the Kempf timing belt tension adjustment tool.

As soon as we can get Dave's tensioner to stop leaking oil from the boot we will button it back up.

FlyingDog

On Dave's tensioner, does the boot leak as it's being filled or after the engine is started?

How do the internals of Bill's tensioner look? Anything like this?

tomcat

Hey guys,

Had a great time. Great seeing you guys and thanks for hosting Chris. Sorry I didn't help much - it seemed everything was under control and didn't want to get in the way.

The night before I was thinking about things to bring, but was still in a groggy state from wake-up to Starbucks. I knew I should have brought the hex bolt (one removed with dremel from Dave's).

After spending the day with you guys, I am more anxious about getting mine on the road. Got the driver's side cam cover back on. I had problems with two (of three) on the side of the head next to the cam gear. Got a bolt threaded into one of the problem holes but not the other. I am not touching the passenger side. Onward to my WP/TB job.

BTW, It looks like all 928 wrenching jobs require a "Bill." Not $$$ bill. The left coast has one and now we know we have one. Good seeing you again Bill. Went out and got my steel pipe today.

John

LaughaC

Dave's boot leaks as it's being filled.

I had plenty of help, Tomcat, thanks for making the drive out here. It was great to chat with all of you guys.

My 928 started and I drove it up an down the block yesterday. Today I let it idle in the driveway for about a half hour until someone banged on our front door and screame that it was on fire.

Yep, it was pretty scary. I emptied a full fire extinguisher and my exhaust fire kept burning until I sprayed two hoses underneat for about 5 minutes. Fire department came and everything. I'm just glad there were no injuries and that someone called this to our attention before the car burned to the gas tank and blew my house away. I'm travelling with work for a few days, but will have some investigating to do when I get back. The visible heat damage includes melted gournd effects under the passenger door. There was a time when I thought flames looked cool on a car, but I will never feel that way again.

tomcat

Unbelieveable (RE: fire). Hope there wasn't too much damage.

Recalling our conversation about belt tension (I have always wondered about this topic), look at pg 11 (http://www.928intl.com/repair/T-belt1.pdf). Quick (inaccurate) math and assuming a linear scale for the 9201, the document says a 32V has about 10% more tension. And I believe the tension tool you used and I have, was copied from the Porsche tool for the 16V.

All of my previous inquiries said tool is ok for both engines.

wds928

Chris, sorry to hear about the fire. Was the fire electrical or fuel related??

FlyingDog

Both values fall in the 'window' of the Kempf tool.

michaelathome

DAMN! Sorry to hear Chris. I always worry about that kinda stuff after doing a lot of work on/under cars. I can't think of anything other than purple power and simple green that aren't flamable liquids/solvents when trying to do engine cleaning. Lisa bought me a power washer for fathers day for that very reason, get those things off the bottom of the car when you are done. Let us know what you find out about the cause when you get back and hope you have a safe trip.

Michael

dr bob

MOre than a few cars have been consumed by fire, following a failure of one of the ignition systems. A loose coil wire, even one or two loose plug wires will do it for you. As you are investigating the cause, start with ignition on one side.

Starting in 1989, the cars come with thermocouples in the exhausts, and provision to turn fuel off on the four cylinders serviced by each individual coil. This was all in response to cat fires expereinced when one ignition fails. Early in my ownership period (soon after the car acquired me...), it started to run weak on cold start. One of the sensors was not working right. The car still had enough power to drive OK, and might never have been noticed by the dentist's wife on the way to the tennis club.


Somewhat related:

At the South Carolna Dyno Day this spring, sevarl cars showed some serious heat from the cats during their runs. A couple included a lot of smoke as the undercoating got warm. Lots of load on the cats and minimal airflow under the car while on the dyno. No cooling. Red-hot cats and quess what... One or two cylinders missing, four missing if the coli wasn't connected well. and the car sitting at idle in the drive for half an hour would produce plenty of extra heat. Easily enough to melt and burn undercoating.

I'm sorry to hear about stuff like this. I'm glad you were able to limit the damage to the car, and avoid losing a house or family. Scary stuff!

tomcat

Matt, when Chris tested is tension with the Kempf tool, Bill (who recently used a 9201 on his GTS) said his seemed to be more tightly tensioned. and BTW, Chris tensioned it to the max side of the Kempf window. I just checked the tension on my 32V and it seems to be tighter than Chris'. In fact, my tension is past the edge of the Kempf window by about 50%.

Pls let me know why you are so sure the tension for the 16V and the 32V are nominally the same as measured with the Kempf.

wds928

Good point John. I've never used a Kempf tool before and really didn't realize it's a knock-off of the 16-valve tool until you mentioned it Saturday. That said, all my experierence was with my own 32-valve and my recollection was that the belt tension was certainly tighter than what we had on Chris's belt. That your 32-valve belt is tighter than the window just adds to the confusion.

Anyone out there with the answer, please chime in.

FlyingDog

He told me. Well, he didn't really tell me, but he mentioned it in a discussion while I was trying to get my car ready for SITM. If you're outside the window, something is wrong. If you're high, you're eating the anodizing off the sprockets. If you're low, you're risking jumping teeth. The 9201 is supposedly very hard to correctly calibrate.

BTW, if you want to ask him, he reads the Rennlist 928 email listserve.

tomcat

Another explanation is that the old mechanical Porsche tool is designed for the 16V - therefore, so is the Kempf tool.

I think a variance of 10% in tension is more than nominal and should be explained better in terms of why it's ok to tension 10% less or the user should make adjustments when using the tool for a 32V.