I posted this question a couple days ago, although I took it down shortly there-after. I would like fellow Rennlisters to tell me what they think is a fair value for an engine. For those of you that have been following this little saga, you may be aware of the circumstances for which i post this poll. For those that dont, well lets just say that after a purchase 3 months ago, I come to find out that i was flatly lied to, or mislead for those that think lied to is too strong a word, about the condition of the engine.

I would like to get your opinion of whats fair value for a 170,000+ mile 1990 GT engine. Car has service records from 2002 on from what I can tell from a known 928 "specalist" in San Jose. Possibly records predating that, so far the latest records I have are 2003. It runs reasonably well, I have strong suspisions that its low on compression on a few cylinders, but a compression check will either prove or disprove this. I have yet to do that. What would you do with a 170,000 mile engine. To give a fair representation of the engine, It has had the wiring harnes replaced I would say within the last 2 years, It has supposedly had the timing belt and water pump replaced in September, and has new plug wires as well. I have also put about another $400 into it with rebuilt injectors, a complete overhaul of the intake manifold and vacumn lines, as well as had the filthy valve covers and intake manifold repainted. There was also a leaking oil pan gasket, and rear mainseal that were also replaced by me, as well as valve cover gaskes. It must be said that had i known the true mileage of the engine prior to purchase, for one wouldnt not have bought it, and 2 wouldnt have installed it in the car without first replacing all rings, bearings and getting valve work done on it. That didnt happen cause I was told the mileage was 130,000 miles up until this week when records which were finally produced showed otherwise.

This engine is in a car that I purchased with a timing belt failure, so It was bought to simply put in the car and save the timing belt failure R&R for a later date. This wasnt an emergency purchase by anymeans as well. This was actually paid for in full some 6-8 weeks before it was even made available to me to install.

I am now trying to come to a settlement amount to make up for the obvious misrepresentation of the seller. I would hope that they do their best to fix this situation so I ask you what is the thing worth.

If you have any questions let me know as I am sure there are details left out in my rush to post this and get as much feedback on it as possible.

 

170k on these motors is nothing...if it was taken care of. I'd first do a leakdown, then a compression before I start a Jihad.
There once was a 928 shop in the greater S.F. area that claimed a good 928 engine should post 200+psi on a warm comp. test. Maybe the same shop you mention, I dunno. Do a search here and review their conjucture.
Best of luck to you.

 

I'd pay "none of the above" since it won't bolt directly into my '85 and since it will require work. To get an engine like this up to snuff would not be cheap.

Harvey

 

same thought here... none of the above sounded apealing in any kind of way

 

Hi since you have had the cam covers off then you looked at the cams if they were OK then you got a deal, if you rebuild the motor then thats extra, put new bearings in it polish the crank do a valve job cut the heads slightly, re ring it, clean it up and run it, you will have a screamer, measure the heads to see if they have already been cut

 

I am curious what you paid for it.

Other than that I have to agree with Scott.

 

It does run.....the cams look good (those are worth some $$)....of course everything depends on the leakdown-compression test......if both of those are decent....(save 175+....only a few %) then button it up and drive it! However if the leakdown/compression is bad......then its a total rebuild (unless headgasket)......which really won't cost much less than the blown TB engine?

The good news is the car with blown TB you bought was probably pretty cheap (mine was!!...I did the same as you two years ago)....so even if it costs quite a bit (mine did)....your still not totally buried in it & you'll have a nice running 928 when your done!

 

Well I paid $5,000 for what I was told was a strong 130,000 mile engine. I as told it was compression tested recently as well. Ive now come to find after records that were part of the deal have been produced that the mileage is off considerably. I was expecting a 130,000 mile engine which is what they told me it was when i was in their shop in April.

I didnt care to bargian them down from $5000 as I thought I would be getting what they told me would be a good strong engine. I trusted them to deliver what they had promised to me. But Ive since had such a terrible experience with them that I dont trust them with anything anymore.

 

Dude that sucks...no wonder they with held the records. I know 928 Intl. told me 4500.00 ballpark for a standard engine with one year warranty on a thread a while back (as I recolect). A GT motor for about the same price with no warranty about averages out IMO. If the compression doesn't check out and considering all the labor, parts, time you have in it you should get some cmpensation. What a black eye on this once valued parts house!

 

I'd expect to be given some sort of compensation. I wonder if there would be any legal implications. To me it doesn't seem much different than being sold a car and then finding that the odometer had been rolled back.

 

I completely agree, Thats what i am seeking, but I am being asked to find out what a 170,000 mile GT engine has recently sold for. Which is absurd as I told them that any engine with that mileage if its out of a car, gets rebuilt regardless, you just do it since it out. You would never reinstall it in a car.

I am hoping to avoid the further headache of going to court to resolve this. I truly hope they step up and make this situation right.

I had also offered them to buy it back plus the $300-$400 I have into the engine with painting and new parts, but I dont have the time to pull the engine again so shortly after. Ive only had the car running now 3 weeks and although I dont drive it much I dont want to tear it apart again just yet.

 

In fairness to the 'parts house' you really need to do a leak down. Bill B recently SC'd a 150k 928 and thought little about it. One of my GT's has 142k and is as strong as any I have owned. Unless these motors have been abused they hold up to mileage very well.

Are you certain they knew there was 170k on the motor? I doubt there is a lot of value difference between a 130k motor and a 170k motor. What kind of compensation do you think you are owed?

 

Legal implications is not an easy question, particularly if there is distance between you and the seller. Claims are probably in the range of everyone-loses, such are civil suits. You'd win the suit, but at what cost?
A jury would give you a full refund plus any out of pocket expenses, plus possible common law fraud punitive damages, but a judge would likely give you some prorated partial refund - the most likely but never certain outcome. How many days over how many months do you want to travel to a courthouse?
Juries tend to be hard on misleading auto-based sales by companies, though having a Porsche works against you. Hard to feel sorry for someone who drives a Porsche.
Value is relative, it seems. To someone who truly blew their GT motor unrepairably so it probably is worth alot if their GT is otherwise pristine. As a custom install it is probably worth less than zero. It has some value as parts. To a person of a suitable budget rebuilding an S4 anyway, they might want to do a mxing of components for the upgrade. GT motors are rare and becoming rarer - as fewer and fewer will be parted out.
A decade from now, the response likely would be: "holy s...t, you really have a spare GT motor?" But that day is still a bit off.
Good luck!

 

I want $2000 back, and based on the way the poll's are going I think thats more than fair on my part. I honestly dont see much value in this engine tha a good core with no damage to rebuild and go that route.

I agree with you that these engines are pretty durable, When I pulled apart my 100K mile engine that was in the car the bores looked great, no scratches, a nice cross hatch finish on it, it was only the top 5-7mm or so that had carbon build up on them.

The mileage difference may not seem much, it is 30% or there abouts, What I am most angry about though is the fact that cant be forgotten that I WAS LIED TO. And as some of you know I had been awaiting documents of the engine for months and when i finally got them and say what the mileage was is when alarm bells started ringing. I figured that buying a 130,000 mile engine i would get 70,000 miles out of it, at least last me 5 years before i woudl rebuild. But Now i'm looking at a useable life of maybe 30,000, (if you believe 200k is the upper range for these) but that shortens my expectancy by some 4 years. I dont see that engine being in the car for more than a year, and the reason its in the car now is that i spent some 3 months in total on and off puling the old one and reinstalling this one and I dont want to start that all over again already.

I think what I am asking for in reimbursment is fair. I am not asking for a free engine. The problem on their part seems to be that they will get ripped a new one from their manager. Well thats not my problem, why should i pay for their obvious misrepresentation.

 

The engine had 40,000 more miles on it than was claimed when it was sold to you. Hasn't it been mentioned that Porsche said the 928 engine has an engineered service life of 250,000 miles? If so, that would mean that you were shorted 16% of the Porsche indicated engine service life of that engine. Get the price that the shop has charged for recent 928 engine rebuilds. That would be the cost to get an engine that had reached the end of it's service life back to new condition. Take 16% of the cost of that engine rebuild and that would be the dollar value of how much you were shorted by when you purchased the engine. Sound reasonable? Maybe an attorney could tell you if that way of determining a value for the compensation you'd be due would sound reasonable in court. Of course there might be additional money on top of that for installation, etc.