a4sfed928

This is my simple solution:
130,000 miles / $5000 = 26 miles / 1 dollar
A difference of 40,000 miles / 26 miles per dollar = $1538.00 refund.

pmotts

Well done

dr bob

Your calculation method is upside-down. (Sorry!)

Ryan buys an engine for $5000 that has an expected remaining life of 70,000 miles. That's about 7.14 cents per mile. Now he finds out that he really only has 30,000 miles of remaining life. Let's see, carry the four, add in the time-of-day and the air temperature, comes to $2856. Considering the portion of his labors spent installing the motor, the suggestion of a $2,000 "adjustment" is not at all out of line, and would in fact be a bargain for the seller.

Move the total expected life number from 200k to 250k miles, and the numbers change. Ryan this time purchased an engine with 120k miles of expected remaining life, for 4.17 cents per mile. Now he has 80k miles of expected remaining life, and the calculator says that $1668 in value has been lost.

One can easily see that the $2k adjustment he's looking for is in line with most of our engine life expectations. The 'discount' for present value of those miles would probably make a nice offset for the share of install costs that needs to be considered.

-----

All that said, one still has a tough time arguing that the engine is closer to used up before a simple compression and leak-down test is done.

Ryan-- I have a good compression tester if yours isn't handy. We don't yet have a good leakdown tester for the SoCal but I'd be glad to either share the cost of a new one with you and take it when you are done, or just buy it from you used at a slight discount. Generally, if the engine will pass a warm compression test with good numbers, and there isn't high oil consumption, a leakdown test won't tell you a lot more than what you already know.

RyanPerrella

Bob,

I actually ahve a leakdown tester but Ive heard its a real pain on these cars for whatever reason.

DFWX

For $8000 you have a very valid complaint!
Calculating a "settlement" is really a tough one, though. On your end, a partial settlement does not change that you might be out lots of $$ you otherwise would not. However, it does not mean you get the motor for free.
Taking the position that you won't pull the motor for a refund due to labor and time makes resolution difficult. If you pulled the motor, you would have basis for a full refund - at least - and that a solid court win (before a jury). You also have the threat of "common law fraud" for punitive damages.
I was in a similar suit years ago over a 69 T BIrd I bought from a dealer for restoration - who could not then come up with a title - after I had spent about $1,000 in parts, rebuilt the top end of the motor and the exhaust - and then produced a fraudulent title.
The jury gave me all I had paid for it, all I had spent on parts, $5,000 in punitive damages - and that get to keep the car for free. Juries do not like fraud in terms of cars - if you can prove that the seller knew the true mileage.
As written before, misrepresntation on mileage is your only legal complaint. There is no action for the motor being bum when they told you it was good. That is all subject to opinion, salesmanship, and buyer beware. After all, you were buying a motor that you believed had well over 100K miles on and is 16 years old.
But you also will need to show the motor is not right. It was you gamble as it was used, but they could deliberately quote miles on it if they knew it was false - or if they knew they didn't know how many miles it had. The sole issue, therefore, is misrepresentation of damages. In court, you could legitimately point out that if the motor throws a rod due to high mileage, you are out even more than $8K for the next one and that you should not have to gamble on a 175,000 mile motor.
To be persuasive, you could formally ask the seller to warranty your motor to 175,000 miles - provided you document oil change, timing belt serving and general servicing schedule documentation. If they refuse, it would establish that they also know that you lost dependability in the 50,000 mile difference.
As your suit then would be more than small claims, an attorney would be a must. You also will need expert witnesses, meaning at least one person who would quality as a 928 expert in terms of mechanical/motor matters and their life spans.
Mark O
Mark O

Vilhuer

I don't know why this would be the case. On 32V engine access to sparkplugs is really simple and straightforward. Just do it and you'll have something solid go by.

Sab

I would not hesitate to install an engine with 180k miles in my car. My engine has 180 k miles, it is supercharged, get's driven all out every day and some weekends on the track. It has full compression and does not burn any oil.
I would do a thourough check with leakdown and compression test. That will only take an hour or so.
I would rather have a 180k mileage engine from someone that took care of it then a 100k mileage engine from someone that let's say revs the engine high while cold every morning. It could then be ruined at 80k miles.
I would think that many many engines have much more then 200 k miles on the block. And if you get a chance to start out with fresh seals and gaskets, another 100k miles is probably a breeze.

On the other hand misrepresentation on the sellers part is not nice and a $2k refund will probably still leave them some margin...

Good luck.

heinrich

I echo this fully. How can you complain without a leakdown? And 170k is NOTHING, especially if you expected 130. I think if a leakdown looks good, drive and thank the seller. I think you paid a little too much, but the bottom line is, you knew you were getting a high-mileage engine, and to instal a 130k engine untouched is the same as installing a 170k one, same risks.

heinrich

LOL Scott. I saw that compression claim too and I fully disagree with it. Good point though.

H2

I know this is not popular on this list...but it would be nice for the rest of us to know who the seller was on this transaction so we would be extra careful with them on a similar sale in the future. There must be a way to do this without worrying about being sued for slander. Anyone with ideas on this? At the same time, I know that's not very considerate in case this is just a case of a simple misunderstanding and not a deliberate misinterpretation.

On the other side of the coin, every story has two sides and we are only hearing one side. The seller, on the other hand, probably has a different view...maybe only as credible as his first claim or entirely professional and valid?

At some point, the buyer has to calculate the costs of pursuing possible reimbursement...and...loss of your time and money in trying to get justice...vs cost of stomach ulcers....vs. just walking away and warning others to be careful. For others, the value of vengence is pretty high...and usually not satisfying. In advertising, they say that a satisfied customer usually tells 2-3 people about the good service they got...and a dissatisfied customer tells at least 12-20 (or more ) customers of the bad service they got. Good or bad, there are dealers I don't buy from because of a series of claims by people on this list of their bad experiences. But one claim isn't enough. I think many of us know shysters who sell crap on eBay. Anytime that discussion starts about half will side witn and about half against....unless the seller really has a consistent record of poor sales. And sometimes people just make honest mistakes. How would you know if you sold your 928 to someone that the thrust bearing wouldn't go out or the belt throw as he drives away from your house? Stuff happens.

Most of my purchase are from at least 2 of the big 3. And for certain items, the other "1" of the three excels in some services. Each of us chooses based on our personal experience. And there is wide disagreement on which is best. If you say one is bad...a 100 satistified customers will disagree with you.

I had a bad salesperson from Automobile Atlanta mess me over for $60....but it wasn't AA's fault...just a disgruntled salesman who apparently wanted to screw the company's reputation on his way out the door...and I understand that. One of my last purchases was from AA when the big 3 couldn't find the part.

Me? I'm so paranoid, I'd probably not bought this engine in the first place. I've been burnt too many times. And, if I had, I'd have required a leakdown, etc. or complained and they'd make good or I'd walk away and warn my close friends of my bad luck. Caveat Emptor.

Just my two plugged nickels of thoughts.

H2

heinrich

Come on Harv. He said

pmotts

Because the mileage was misrepresented, that in itself is enough to complain. Maybe that is how some here do business but I know Ryan was expecting better from a community member.

Imo000

OK, but would you pay $5000 for a 180K engine????

heinrich

Imo, I wouldn't pay that for a 130k engine either. But the buyer did I don't think we can retrofit his price because we think it was too high. The question is, what is his loss as a result of the mileage diff. And IMHO it is nonexistent. I'd say maybe 500 bucks? Now, if he found the engine to be defective ... that would be a different ballgame.

Fabio421

Do you have documentation claiming 130k? If so you have a gripe. What has the seller offered? I agree that you paid too much regardless, but whats done is done.