mark kibort

Ive raced 928s for 10 years now, and have more racing starts on the same engine than anyone. Ive never seen a #2 /6 bearing issue. the holbert car has 5 years of racing on the engine and chassis, with only that annomolous cam sprocket teeth issue. when i took apart my beat up 84 engine after 170,000miles, and 40,000miles of DE and Racing, there was no unusual wear on the #2/6 bearing.
the only thing that was worn on that engine was the head gasket! (and the synchros.) the later 5 liter euro was pretty bullet proof too. the holbert engine, also no signs of wear. maybe its amzoil, maybe its luck, maybe its not going over 6300rpm that often. I dont know. what i can say , is the M3s i race with , both E30 and E36, are riddled with issues. cranks breaking at the flywheel, retaining clips breaking, rod knocks, all sorts of termial failures. the 928 engine was designed amazingly well. for racing, if used to its design limits and maintained well, its indistructable.
when you build one, you can appricate the differences between the 928 engine vs the M3 engine. sure the M3s are my biggest competition, and we are very close HP to weigh, but if you see the mods a M3 has to go through as far as chassis stiffening, suspension upgrades, etc to compete with a 928, its clear the 928 is a better choise. I would never dream of driving a race M3 to the track. but with a 928, the drive is comfortable and stable. Stock for stock, the M3 is better, as the 928 is heavier and sprung to soft. but drop the weight, put on some tires equal to those cars of equal size, and it will have the edge.

sure, there are more folks racing the M3, and that is the best reason to own one (for racing) for street driving, the 928 is certainly more comfortable with much more upside with power.

My opinion!

MK

blau928

Drive both a 928, and an E36 M3.. I have an S4, and all I can say, is I have never been passed by an E36 M3 ever in my car while hot footing it.. And yes Brendan, it's an AUTO with 2.2 rear end.. Just had a little altercation with one this evening, and that's actually the only rason I'm even looking at this thread.....

It never got close enough to read the license plate...

If they are catching you, you are not using your foot properly... Even in an auto...

HTH,

tlee

One additional consideration:

If you are still considering the M3, do some research into the different engine issues that occured and were solved shortly after that era; something about nikasil and or a different coating that was failing due to high sulfur content of our US gasoline vs that of europe. M cars are cool, I owned a euro M6 and it was great however lived in fear of ever rebuilding that engine, way more expensive than a 928 with timing belt or thrust bearing damage, I was quoted $16,000 parts and labor to rebuild.

Anyway you don't want an out of warranty M engine that was run hard and put away wet especially if has the wrong coating etc. Guru for these (BMW-M) cars in San Diego is a guy named Frank Fahey, Fahey Motorsports in Mira Mesa off Mira Mar Road, look him up and ask him what you need to know.

I'd get an S-4 928 auto or stick... Good Luck!

Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net

I own a '96 M3 and a an '80 Euro S 928, both are 5 speeds. I also have an '89 S4 5 speed, but don't have any seat time to give you a comparison with it.

I will never willing sell my M3 or my 928. There are many similarities and many differences. Clearly the M3 is more practical, but I don't think you will find a good example for $10k.

As for some of the comments degrading the M3, I bought my M3 with 45k miles on it, and now have @160k miles on it. It still performs well, and serves me as both a track and street car, while it is now nicely prepared for track duty, it has never been passed by an 928 S4 on the track, yet I have passed many. The fit and finish of my M3 is definitely comparable to my 928s. Don't be picking on M3s!

I am confident the engine problem TLEE is refering to was in the 5 series. The M3 have a few issues, but nothing so significant as he describes.

With regard to MK's comments, you can't lump E30 and E36 M3s together, they have almost nothing in common.

Bill51sdr

Well lessee... you have a picture of a glorified VW in your avatar and no other indication of any other car you own and you make what sure seems to me and others on this forum, a very UNINFORMED statement about a car I and others here have had no problem keeping up with 5-speeds in fun runs and autox's. Any other ?'s

Mongo

Yea I recall the 928 being actually one of Porsche's REAL original conceived cars that wasn't started off a VW pan and with a reliable method of cooling it. Reliable cars don't need valve adjustments every 10,000 miles.

searching4996

Drive an e36 m3 and you'll fall in love. Probably one of the 10 best cars made in that era, it will give you years of semi-reliable joy. I'd reccommend raising your cost expectations, as a really well cared for one will be between 16-19k. I don't think a 928 auto will give you the same experience.

Bill51sdr

Agreed, they are completely different cars, but both great cars in their own right. As I said, I would one day like to own another M3 in addition to the 928.

Jascd

This is exactly the choice I faced. I had a 96 m3 with 125Km for NZ$28,000 with full history and in fantastic condition, compared to a number of 89/90 s4s with lower km (80km/50,000 miles)for around NZ$23,000 and ok but not perfect history. In the end the decision rested on:

what had the x factor?

Needless to say heart ruled head and i bought the best S4 I could find in the colour I liked (grand prix white and black interior).

I paid NZ$23,000 and have owned it for 6 months. In that time I have spent another NZ$13,000 on fixes, including many missed by the official porsche PPI, such as engine mounts, torque tube, new radiator and a whole bunch of stuff (got a settlement of $2k).

Right now if I had to make the same decision I might not go for the S4 but every time i drive it I love it though I live in fear of something breaking. Still, if it goes ok from here on I think in the longer term I won't regret it.

I think i would have regretted getting my dream car if it had not turned out to be so special. I don't know much about the M3s but they just don't ring my bells the same way.

MGW-Fla

A 928 auto can be deceiving to those who either have never driven one, or rarely driven one. Especially when you add in all the negative PR they have received about being heavy or lethargic off the line. The 1st 928 I ever test drove was an 83 16v auto. Impressed me as an incredible car, but seemed slower at the start from 0-10 mph than what I expected. My brother, the car wholesaler, gave me all the negative "they cost too much to maintain" crud & I ended up buying a 911 that I owned for 5 yrs.

Now that I've owned a 928 for 20 months, even "just" an '85 32v auto, I truly love these cars! For "spirited" driving, adding the AA chip, & DR's "Mountain Man ModularXpipe" greatly enhanced the low end torque for your hole shot. DR's front sway bar also enhanced the handling too. Just where I think the car should be. I rarely get the chance or would even take it, to go too much beyond triple digits. But from 0-99 my shark has definately already suprised a few people, including me! I let the PO drive it last week with the above mods & he was shocked. Said he couldnt believe it was the same car! When he got on it from a red light he had his mouth open & a shocked smile on his face. Keep in mind, he's owned three 911s since, an 03 Targa, 02 Carrera 4S, & currently with a new 06 997 Carrera 4. His wife suggesting they buy the 928 back from me, but he told me later that he didnt trust her driving it!

Jim R.

I've owned both a '98 M3 5spd with Dinan stage 4 upgrades and the '89 GT. Two totally different driving experiences. The M3 is probably easier to live with as a daily driver (mine was), and easy to maintain. Wish I had the sedan instead of the coupe, I would probably still have it. The 928 is an exotic beast, and no M3 will replace it. Drive them both, you will want one or the other more. Cars like these are both great, figure out which "does it" for you.

Jim

MGW-Fla

I still love the look of a late model M3, very aggrssive look to them. They are still on my list of cars I hope to one day own. I've yet to drive one, but have no doubt they are awesome cars. Heck, I point them out so much in traffic that even my wife can distinguish them from a regular 3 series beemer. She can't remember the name of the color, but recognizes the Laguna Seca Blue that only comes on an M3! My son has driven one & even suggested last year that we trade out a few cars, including his Roush Mustang, anty up some more $$, & get a couple of nice used M3s! Although I understand his thoughts, how convenient for him to make that suggestion with my bank account!

They do make the M3 available with their SMG transmission, which they call a manual that you can put into auto mode versus their Steptronic which is the auto transmission that you can shift manually. The SMG has paddle shifting on the back of the steering wheel like the F1 cars. I can tell you that manually shifting the auto, even with the computer keeping you in check, surely only helped cause my tranny problems. An that was with my wife driving it the 1st 3 years & never taking it out of auto mode! They may make it where you can shift manually, but it wasnt meant for regular use.

My 02 325 has had body trim fall off or slide out of place. Dealer's Service Mgr said, oh yeah, thats very common. Course, its not covered in your extended warranty, but for $400 we can put new on for ya! Also have had front end suspension parts go out that seemed way too early for me. My two 85 Sharks don't have trim pieces falling off & I made sure to tell that service mgr that. Also mentioned that they charge the same $94.50/hr that Brumos Porsche charges just down the street from them & they don't fight you on every little issue either! They wear you out at the dealer & know that they are the only game in town with no competition of another BMW dealer. Surely if a thorough ppi is good advice on a 928, I'd have to think its just as crucial on an M3. Still, I know I will always keep an eye out for an M3. Just like in a Shark, knowing the history & service will be very important. It will also have to be one I wouldnt take to the dealer for service!

Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net

Probably as many differences between the E46 M3 and E36 M3, as between the E36 M3 and E30 M3.

SwayBar

If you have a job, and a boss, I'm sure he would not be too pleased with your performance with all the erroneous ASSUMPTIONS you tend to make.

Well lessee....

I was once in the same predicament as the thread-starter, and against my better judgement, bought an excellent-condition automatic S4. Condition-wise, it was way better than the other 928's I went and looked at, and ended up being the reason I bought it, hoping I'll grow accustomed to the sleepy automatic.

I made sure all the cables were adjusted properly and it was still a dog off the line. Lo-and-behold, I find out the S4 is programmed to take-off in second gear from a full-stop; WTF???

Next up was the shifter-mod I found on Tony's site; that mod made a considerable difference in how the trans operated, and Porsche should have released the car from the factory that way as the car was much more lively when the accelerator was manipulated. Regardless, the car was anything but fast at speed, as hard as it tried.

Unfortunately, as I stated earlier, an automatic is after all, an automatic, and because of this, causes the car to sound like a blender whenever it shifts. Go ahead and fire up a blender and push the various speed buttons and you'll see what I mean. You can even simulate a kick-down shift with the shifter-mod installed by going from button 2 to button 4, and back down to button 2 again when you 'lift'. For me, I did not like it at all.

Additionally, the S4 weighs a considerable 3500 pounds, and is coupled to a relatively under-powered 317 hp engine which violates the 10-to-1 'rule'; make the car 3100 lbs and it's a different story. For a performance-minded enthusiast, those figures are important. And the last time I checked, Porsche in their literature lists all their manuals as being quicker versus the autos/tips.

On the other hand, if one is a cruiser-only, or a pure GT driver, those numbers are meaningless.

Nonetheless, the thread-starter made it abundantly clear that he is concerned about transmission choice, just as I was when I bought my automatic S4. I was greatly displeased with it's operation, it's resultant sound, and it's lack of 'real' performance at any speed.

My 5-speed's are MUCH more enjoyable cars for the way I like to drive.

Do you care to make any more assumptions?

whitefox

I will make an educated assumption, you bought a POS S4.