928 S4 vs M3
04-18-2006, 12:46 PM
#46
Drifting
Originally Posted by SwayBar
, hoping I'll grow accustomed to the sleepy automatic.
Unfortunately, as I stated earlier, an automatic is after all, an automatic, and because of this, causes the car to sound like a blender whenever it shifts.
My 5-speed's are MUCH more enjoyable cars for the way I like to drive.
Do you care to make any more assumptions?
Unfortunately, as I stated earlier, an automatic is after all, an automatic, and because of this, causes the car to sound like a blender whenever it shifts.
My 5-speed's are MUCH more enjoyable cars for the way I like to drive.
Do you care to make any more assumptions?
My Euro auto is anything but sleepy. What you say may apply to S4's with 2.2 auto's but it does not apply to all 928 autos. Off the line my car screams and if i choose will easily spin both wheels at will. The shifting and kickdown are silky smooth and instant.
I have owned and driven plenty of 5 speed cars but in my 928 the shifting is not missed one bit. In fact my cars strongest performance is off the line and up under full throttle. You perhaps have had experience with some lemons.
04-18-2006, 01:16 PM
#48
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Perhaps I am missing something, but the auto can't predict downshifts, a big disadvantage in performance driving. Now I know you can manually shift an automatic, but if you are going to shift then it has to be better to have 5 speeds instead of 3 or 4, right?
04-18-2006, 01:30 PM
#49
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Good point Stan, but I have found that in certain environments, ie, autox, there is a certain advantage, course dependent certainly, to leaving the shift lever in "2" and just worrying about your braking and turn-in points.
04-18-2006, 01:32 PM
#50
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I am a true believer in the 5-speeds. I almost considered an auto, but then came to my senses. The 5 speed gives you sooo much more control over the car IMHO.
Since I got the GT, I've let 2 other 928 Auto owners drive it. In both instances they said, "I hate you! Because now I have to get a 5-speed!" Sure it's a small sample, but from a focus group perspective, the quality of the data can't be dismissed. 5-speeds rock!
Since I got the GT, I've let 2 other 928 Auto owners drive it. In both instances they said, "I hate you! Because now I have to get a 5-speed!" Sure it's a small sample, but from a focus group perspective, the quality of the data can't be dismissed. 5-speeds rock!
04-18-2006, 01:36 PM
#51
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Originally Posted by SwayBar
If you have a job, and a boss, I'm sure he would not be too pleased with your performance with all the erroneous ASSUMPTIONS you tend to make.
Well lessee....
I was once in the same predicament as the thread-starter, and against my better judgement, bought an excellent-condition automatic S4. Condition-wise, it was way better than the other 928's I went and looked at, and ended up being the reason I bought it, hoping I'll grow accustomed to the sleepy automatic.
I made sure all the cables were adjusted properly and it was still a dog off the line. Lo-and-behold, I find out the S4 is programmed to take-off in second gear from a full-stop; WTF???
Next up was the shifter-mod I found on Tony's site; that mod made a considerable difference in how the trans operated, and Porsche should have released the car from the factory that way as the car was much more lively when the accelerator was manipulated. Regardless, the car was anything but fast at speed, as hard as it tried.
Unfortunately, as I stated earlier, an automatic is after all, an automatic, and because of this, causes the car to sound like a blender whenever it shifts. Go ahead and fire up a blender and push the various speed buttons and you'll see what I mean. You can even simulate a kick-down shift with the shifter-mod installed by going from button 2 to button 4, and back down to button 2 again when you 'lift'. For me, I did not like it at all.
Additionally, the S4 weighs a considerable 3500 pounds, and is coupled to a relatively under-powered 317 hp engine which violates the 10-to-1 'rule'; make the car 3100 lbs and it's a different story. For a performance-minded enthusiast, those figures are important. And the last time I checked, Porsche in their literature lists all their manuals as being quicker versus the autos/tips.
On the other hand, if one is a cruiser-only, or a pure GT driver, those numbers are meaningless.
Nonetheless, the thread-starter made it abundantly clear that he is concerned about transmission choice, just as I was when I bought my automatic S4. I was greatly displeased with it's operation, it's resultant sound, and it's lack of 'real' performance at any speed.
My 5-speed's are MUCH more enjoyable cars for the way I like to drive.
Do you care to make any more assumptions?
Well lessee....
I was once in the same predicament as the thread-starter, and against my better judgement, bought an excellent-condition automatic S4. Condition-wise, it was way better than the other 928's I went and looked at, and ended up being the reason I bought it, hoping I'll grow accustomed to the sleepy automatic.
I made sure all the cables were adjusted properly and it was still a dog off the line. Lo-and-behold, I find out the S4 is programmed to take-off in second gear from a full-stop; WTF???
Next up was the shifter-mod I found on Tony's site; that mod made a considerable difference in how the trans operated, and Porsche should have released the car from the factory that way as the car was much more lively when the accelerator was manipulated. Regardless, the car was anything but fast at speed, as hard as it tried.
Unfortunately, as I stated earlier, an automatic is after all, an automatic, and because of this, causes the car to sound like a blender whenever it shifts. Go ahead and fire up a blender and push the various speed buttons and you'll see what I mean. You can even simulate a kick-down shift with the shifter-mod installed by going from button 2 to button 4, and back down to button 2 again when you 'lift'. For me, I did not like it at all.
Additionally, the S4 weighs a considerable 3500 pounds, and is coupled to a relatively under-powered 317 hp engine which violates the 10-to-1 'rule'; make the car 3100 lbs and it's a different story. For a performance-minded enthusiast, those figures are important. And the last time I checked, Porsche in their literature lists all their manuals as being quicker versus the autos/tips.
On the other hand, if one is a cruiser-only, or a pure GT driver, those numbers are meaningless.
Nonetheless, the thread-starter made it abundantly clear that he is concerned about transmission choice, just as I was when I bought my automatic S4. I was greatly displeased with it's operation, it's resultant sound, and it's lack of 'real' performance at any speed.
My 5-speed's are MUCH more enjoyable cars for the way I like to drive.
Do you care to make any more assumptions?
No more assumptions. If you are ever in the San Diego area, feel free to contact me and I will see if your opinion of auto 928's can be swayed a bit. Whitefox may have a valid point, but we shall see. 89 928's have the 2.54 rear end and revised gear ratios, this may change your impression.
04-18-2006, 01:51 PM
#52
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Fair point Bill, I am not an autocrosser, so I am happy to accept your word on that. And of course how the car will be used is an important consideration.
04-18-2006, 03:52 PM
#56
Race Director
My neighbor has a 97 M3 4 door....nice car & he doesn't seem to have many problems with it....radiator end tank leaked (Behr radiator like the 928) alternator went out (150k miles) & thats about it..... M3's are only 240hp vs 316 in an S4......not nearly as much torque either
I was at the dragstrip last year and ran against a 98 M3 4door 5 speed....he had intake, chips & exahust work.... He jumped me off the line real bad...but I passed him at about 2/3rds of the way down..... Thats in a bone stock 88 S4 auto!! His friend had a 2 door M3 with intake, chips, exhaust, cams and other internal engine work ....... He was a very arrogant punk..... so I asked him how much HP he has...315hp (nice improvement over 240)...... SO I tell him my bone stock 17year old (then) car has 325hp! The look on his face was priceless.... Then he tells me about the 10G's he spent on mods.... So I tell him my whole car was only $15G's....he got even more mad..... With all those mods and a 5 speed he only ran 14.4......I ran 14.5 with a easy launch!!!
The M3's are fun to drive cars...but the 95-99 M3's are starting to look dated to me.....now the newer 333hp M3 would be sweet....but those are big $$$ too!
I was at the dragstrip last year and ran against a 98 M3 4door 5 speed....he had intake, chips & exahust work.... He jumped me off the line real bad...but I passed him at about 2/3rds of the way down..... Thats in a bone stock 88 S4 auto!! His friend had a 2 door M3 with intake, chips, exhaust, cams and other internal engine work ....... He was a very arrogant punk..... so I asked him how much HP he has...315hp (nice improvement over 240)...... SO I tell him my bone stock 17year old (then) car has 325hp! The look on his face was priceless.... Then he tells me about the 10G's he spent on mods.... So I tell him my whole car was only $15G's....he got even more mad..... With all those mods and a 5 speed he only ran 14.4......I ran 14.5 with a easy launch!!!
The M3's are fun to drive cars...but the 95-99 M3's are starting to look dated to me.....now the newer 333hp M3 would be sweet....but those are big $$$ too!
04-18-2006, 06:06 PM
#57
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yes, as there are from the 84 928, 928S4 and GTS!
pretty similar platforms. the M3s are generally lighter and can be made ligthter and the 928 have more weight and near the same HP/weight.
really a matter of bang for the buck and asthetics.
now, the e46 is a beautiful car, 333hp and can be made light. Its my biggest competition on the race track, in near stock form (equal mods) but, we are talking $50-60k car vs $20k race car! (cost of car plus mods)
MK
pretty similar platforms. the M3s are generally lighter and can be made ligthter and the 928 have more weight and near the same HP/weight.
really a matter of bang for the buck and asthetics.
now, the e46 is a beautiful car, 333hp and can be made light. Its my biggest competition on the race track, in near stock form (equal mods) but, we are talking $50-60k car vs $20k race car! (cost of car plus mods)
MK
Originally Posted by Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net
Probably as many differences between the E46 M3 and E36 M3, as between the E36 M3 and E30 M3.
04-18-2006, 08:04 PM
#58
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Originally Posted by whitefox
I will make an educated assumption, you bought a POS S4.
Originally Posted by SwayBar
and against my better judgement, bought an excellent-condition automatic S4.
Originally Posted by TheStig
AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE!!!! 
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/fe...scc_20gsdodge/
Isn't that the same time S4's do the quarter in?
04-18-2006, 08:16 PM
#59
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What is wrong with the SRT-4? My father owns one, and he ran 13.9 bone stock. Completely different type of car. In fact, if the S4 is anywhere near as fast as the SRT-4, I am very impressed.
