Well, I ordered a few back issues of Excellence magazine a couple of weeks ago, and they came today. I was looking only for articles concerning 928’s they have done over the years (having only ordered 17, and will probably order the remaining issues that covered 928s shortly). I read an article in the August 1990 issue titled ‘Project 928 – Flagship or Failure’. I found it very interesting and informative. And I think well written. Of course, some of it I already knew from my earlier days of owning Porsches, and some of it I didn’t. When the 928 was designed, it also came from a clean sheet of paper, which also points to the fact that it does not have very wide fender flares and large spoilers, like the add-ons to the 911 Carreras and 930 Turbos, to the original 911 theme. It is believed by many that the 928 is the best series Porsche car ever designed and built, but that the 911 series is the best Porsche.

Anyway, it got me to thinking. We all know that from an all out performance point of view, a mid-engined car (engine behind the front seats in front of the rear axle plane) is the best configuration (why else would they use it in Formula 1 and the such?). There are some trade-offs, in stopping (compared to a front engined, front weight bias car), and in acceleration (compared to a rear-engined, rear weight bias car like the 911), but almost negligible. I’ve also heard that the 928 is really considered more of a mid-engined car (most of the engine resides behind the from axle plane, thus weight distribution is almost 50/50, like a mid-engined vehicle) than front engined.

The 928 was not popular with a majority of the diehard Porsche enthusiast of the day. One reason was because it was different than the 911 (engine configuration, location, and much more plush), but also heavy (their thought being it was big, over weight, and ponderous . . . . . yeah look at the 911 now), and handled weird compared to the 911. However, I think everyone can agree, the suspension layout on the 928 was superior to the 911. So, now my question . . . . . if the 928 had been closer in size and weight to the 911 of the times, say was 500 lbs, or even just 300 lbs. lighter than it was, with the engine specs and suspension of the original 928 (water-cooled, engine in front, hp, torque, and displacement), do you think the 928 would have gone over much better and been more successful? It definitely would have been serious competition for the 911 as far as performance and also been way ahead of the performance cars or exotics of that era. As it was, it did not have the overwhelming acceleration of the 911SC so was not considered too seriously as any kind of performance car, more a GT. One reason the ante was not pushed with the 914-6 was because it would have been too much competition for the 911, since it had a superior mid-engine layout, thus possibly taking sales away from the 911. Would the 928 been more of a success, becoming the Porsche everyone relates to when you say Porsche if it had been lighter and smaller?

I know it’s a hypothetical question, but I’m sure everyone here has thought those same thoughts at least once before. I believe the 928 would have been more successful, especially in the American market. Anyway fire away, lets have your ideas on this. Good or bad, we know we have a great car, but do you think it would have become greater in the eyes of everyone else?

 

It would have needed to be appealing to new buyers.

The Porsche purists were not happy with it being a front-engined car.
So you would not be able to sell it to them.

So you would have to make the 928 appealing to the general sports car
buying public. And to do that, it would need to be faster than the American
offerings, and at least the same price. And that would never happen.
A top of the line Porsche will always be more expensive than the top
of the line American car.

I think the only way to really convince people that the 928 was
worth keeping around, is if Porsche made it their top race car,
and the Porsche with the most power of all the models, and
made it clearly their new flagship. Keep the 911 around for
the purists, who want a classic, but push forward with the
928 as the new flagship.

 

The 928 was supposed to be the replacement for the 911 and compared favorably to the 911 in the performance area. For instance, in 1983, the 928 was the fastest production car in North America. As we all know Porsche was unsuccessful in moving away from the 911 and the 928 became a bit of a white elephant. Porsche then appears to have attempted to steer the 928 further towards the Benz SL type of market in an attempt to differentiate the 928 from the 911 and keep separate product lines going -- keep in mind that the great majority of 928's sold were with automatic transmissions -- but Porsche only further distanced themselves from their core enthusiasts and failed to attract the SL crowd to any serious degree. Anyone buying an 928 but hoping to get an SL type of luxury car would have been seriously disappointed. Overall, it was a marketing failure at that particular point in time to position the 928 as an equal-but-different car from the 911.

I think it is clear that no car could succeed in 'replacing' the 911 at that time, performance regardless, and even today Porsche seems careful to keep the 911 and variants on top. Porsche is in some respects a victim of its own success, like an actor who gets typecast in a famous role. But we would not have such a wonderful car today had Porsche aimed the 928 somewhere below the 911!

Rick

 

The final production car was a bit different from what Porsche really wanted to hit the market with. There were factors that put a damper on a few ideas for the car. It was supposed to have a 5.0+ litre engine from day one, it was supposed to be 3 " 's wider than it is. It was supposed to be the future of Porsche

Back then, Porsche wasn't a huge car manufacturer, not many could afford them in the 70's as the car had turned to the "higher income level" folks. To maintain the plan, Porsche foresaw that they could not take the level of car they wanted to produce with the 911. They also thought they would remain a small car company and just produce "high end" cars. YES, there was a reason the 928 was so damn far ahead of anything else out there, the car was designed to not be a throw away after 3 years.The price was high as it was an "investment" in the future of automobiles to come. The price was justified by the design, technology and the fact that this was still somewhat hand built (though a production car) in small numbers. The car was NEVER meant to be made in great numbers! They calced it out for the times to work for them. They could have built something like Beetles in mass production, but that wasn't the reason they existed. They raced like other marks to support their company and production. The 928 was an incredibly advanced turn for them. Contrary to what anyone says, they so believed in this car that it nearly wrecked them. NO company designs a car of this sorts with "testing the waters" intentions. 10 years on the drawing boards and I can bet that it cost them a whole lotta money!!! Imagine how surprised and devistated they were when the answer to the question no one had asked came back!

I think it is safe to say that their aspirations have never dwindled. We all agree that production models today show signs of where the 928 was going.

The whole thing reminds me of BACK TO THE FUTURE when Marty ends his guitar solo at the dance to the stares of ...WTF was that???? He then comments, "I guess you guys aren't ready for that yet"

 

I always picture the part where they try out for the prom band, the guy stands up and tells them they're too loud just 30 seconds into the song.

 

That GUY was Huey Lewis!!! LOL That's what made it so funny!

 

Everyone agrees the 928 is a excellent sports-GT car, argueably the best every made! However it was a marketing disaster.....Porsche just never hit the right groups when marketing the car....it was too big...too heavy...too fast....whatever...its just a vehicle of extremes....comfort in an extremely fast car

I do think if the 928 came out with a 5.0L+ engine with 300+ HP to start with....and then they raced it to the incredible success it would have had back then (think winning its class at lemans for about...10+ years in a row!).... Sales would have been very different...Porsche would be a different company today! I'm sure there would be a newer 928 still around!

 

They could have kept the weight and costs down by eliminating a lot of the luxury features. That's easy for us to do.

 

4.5L was clear mistake. They should have done Euro S model for all markets in summer of '77 already.

 

One thing to remember was the 'gas' problem in
the mid-70's and the rage to road economy and
emissions-correctness.

Afterwards, things loosened up and the design got
more aggresive in the 80's & 90's but the market
had moved. P.AG stayed with the money maker(911).

Don't forget the company's internal politics.

p.s. The 924 and 944 were sucking buyers from the pool, too.

 

The thing is, if it had been a success, most of us would not be on Rennlist discussing it. Hell, I'd still be talking it up with my 5.O Mustang buddies from 10 years ago!!!

 

I think everyone missed part of the question. That is do you think the 928 would have been more successful if it was 500 lbs. lighter and smaller in size?

 

Already addressed. Sure the 928 could have been "more" successful (a little), but ultimately it would have met the same fate given the same marketing/positioning.

 

I agree 100% with that statement.

The demise of the 928 was clearly because of a lack of commitment from Porsche to make it their flagship vehicle (or any vehicle they produced ). The 928 wasn't big enough or bad enough in terms of image to garner the word of mouth buzz like the CGT of today. So it relied on traditional advertising.

Sure, Porsche marketed it. They made posters, put into print media, etc. But where they really dropped the ball in my opinion was to not sponsor it in racing events. Perhaps that was a conscious decision to keep it as pure as possible, but the old adage, race on Sunday - buy on Monday was never followed. Even Ferrari does it with the FA1 cars. The race effort isn't to get people to race them, but to plant the image that if you drive this vehicle, you will somehow feel what it is like to drive like that!

Look at the success Dave Lloyd, Mark Anderson, Mark Kilbort, et al have had with their 928 platforms. Just think what a factory sponsored race effort would have produced. More 911'sa would have converted, and perhaps the 928 would not have died its slow miserable death as it did.

It was as if the marketing department based their budget on actual sales rather than desired sales.

At least that's how my rereview-crystal-ball sees it .

 

No, I do not think that 500 fewer pounds of weight and/or a smaller size would have increased the sales of the 928. Substantially more power and different marketing would have. That disco upholstery on the early models was seen as a joke by many of us and the image was compounded by Porsche's disinclination to race the car or make it available set up for racing. As was noted above, a few wins at Le Mans would have certainly changed the picture for this car.