928 - what could have been?
#16
That disco upholstery on the early models was seen as a joke by many of us...
#18
you know, i wonder what would happen if someone took a 928, got a real high-end high-$$$ sponsor took a car, and built a VarioCam 6.4L turbo full race engine (titanium valve train, blueprinted engine, etc...), dropped the engine in the chassis a bit, got a stupendous driver, and got the support to run the car in a serious Grand Prix series... 24 Hrs Du Mans... and beat the factory Porsche team? who knows if it's even possible, but what kind of impact do you think that would have at Porsche?
... maybe they'd consider making a new one for us?
Someone do it!!!
... maybe they'd consider making a new one for us?
Someone do it!!!
#19
Had they been willing, they could have added a 928 turbo model, that would have raised interests and sales. Like with the Cayenne, they have the V6 entry level, the V8 cruiser, and the twin turbo for the HP fanatics. Now they even went a step further and added the turbo S model to the line-up with even more HP.
Simple enhancements like that would have kept the interest alive, and solidified the fan base.
Simple enhancements like that would have kept the interest alive, and solidified the fan base.
#20
Look how the Cayman is forced to eat at the kiddie table by having only 295hp to the 997's 325/355/450TT... With equal motor that car would be kryptonite to the 911 mystique and success. But the 911 is the chosen one. My avatar sums it up...an upside down 911. Weight bias of 38/62%...
I like my heavy, slow 928!!!
p.s. Sterling Gee for president!
I like my heavy, slow 928!!!
p.s. Sterling Gee for president!
#21
To be honest all, i am a marketing executive and the truth behind any product success or failure is Market Positioning (nothing more or less). Porsche messed up from the get-go by not correctly positioning the 928. At first it was a 911 successor (but performance was not stellar), then it was a flagship above the 911, then it was a racebred sports car in the Club Sport/GTwhile the S4 was the Grand Tourer... and then there was the schitzophrenic GTS.
The 928 was is and will always be a Grant Touring machine. Sports car performance wrapped in all the luxuries or civility... something to take on the Mercedes SL, BMW 6/8 series, Aston Martin DB series with... etc. Labelling it an exotic race car in the 70s and 80s placed it somewhere else competing against Ferrari Testarossas and Lambo Countachs of the day among others... 928 was never meant for that, it was way superior but in a different niche. It was also a complex machine WAY ahead of its time when the technology was not ready for what it wanted to be.. and hence all the electrical and mechanical gremlins. Today all of its technology can be simplified from the computers to drivetrain to engine systems (just look at the Corvette C5/6 and BMW 6 series, Aston Martin DB and Mercedes SL... literally copying the 928 in many of its systems if not all)... what Porsche did on drawing boards in the 70s and 80s was replicated and refined in the 90s and 2000s to deliver successful competitios whose origin is 928 none the less.
Also let us not forget that the late 80s through mid 90s saw a global recession that killed many sports and GT cars (Toyota Supra, Nissan ZX, BMW 6/8, etc...).
If Porsche was to sustain the 928, they would have needed to invest in improving the chassis, interior materials, fit and finish, technology, etc... in a time when the market for such cars was shrinking rapidly (across all builders). The 928 was a great car for its time, and lived well. Yes Porsche could have done more, should have done more.. and the 928 would still be alive, but there were marketing mistakes from the beginning, along with Porsche purist arrogance and ignorance, mated with global economics all playing against it. It will remain my favorite Porsche, a true Porsche from the grounds up. Let's hope its successor lives up to its name and the commitment of the builders that penned it and designed it the first time around.
The 928 was is and will always be a Grant Touring machine. Sports car performance wrapped in all the luxuries or civility... something to take on the Mercedes SL, BMW 6/8 series, Aston Martin DB series with... etc. Labelling it an exotic race car in the 70s and 80s placed it somewhere else competing against Ferrari Testarossas and Lambo Countachs of the day among others... 928 was never meant for that, it was way superior but in a different niche. It was also a complex machine WAY ahead of its time when the technology was not ready for what it wanted to be.. and hence all the electrical and mechanical gremlins. Today all of its technology can be simplified from the computers to drivetrain to engine systems (just look at the Corvette C5/6 and BMW 6 series, Aston Martin DB and Mercedes SL... literally copying the 928 in many of its systems if not all)... what Porsche did on drawing boards in the 70s and 80s was replicated and refined in the 90s and 2000s to deliver successful competitios whose origin is 928 none the less.
Also let us not forget that the late 80s through mid 90s saw a global recession that killed many sports and GT cars (Toyota Supra, Nissan ZX, BMW 6/8, etc...).
If Porsche was to sustain the 928, they would have needed to invest in improving the chassis, interior materials, fit and finish, technology, etc... in a time when the market for such cars was shrinking rapidly (across all builders). The 928 was a great car for its time, and lived well. Yes Porsche could have done more, should have done more.. and the 928 would still be alive, but there were marketing mistakes from the beginning, along with Porsche purist arrogance and ignorance, mated with global economics all playing against it. It will remain my favorite Porsche, a true Porsche from the grounds up. Let's hope its successor lives up to its name and the commitment of the builders that penned it and designed it the first time around.
#22
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,372
Likes: 1
From: Gatineau/Ottawa Canada 84 928S triple black
I wouldn't change a single timeline event, as I would not own one...not with the $$ I have. So, what is, is way better than what would have been...for me.
Yah, I know, it as been said before....But dam, am I happy it became what it became : A "Fat & Lazy" front end water cooled V8 50/50 weight dist. that does not look like an half lemon.
Yah, I know, it as been said before....But dam, am I happy it became what it became : A "Fat & Lazy" front end water cooled V8 50/50 weight dist. that does not look like an half lemon.
#23
Originally Posted by DANdeMAN
Yah, I know, it as been said before....But dam, am I happy it became what it became : A "Fat & Lazy" front end water cooled V8 50/50 weight dist. that does not look like an half lemon.
#24
Considering I have a 914 with a 928 motor, I may have an entirely different perspective in this. My thought was Porsche should have done the 928 motor in the middle of the car like real race cars. Some will say I have both bastard children in the can, I like to think I have the best of both worlds.
#25
Originally Posted by 918-S
Considering I have a 914 with a 928 motor, I may have an entirely different perspective in this. My thought was Porsche should have done the 928 motor in the middle of the car like real race cars. Some will say I have both bastard children in the can, I like to think I have the best of both worlds.
#26
918-S, I searched for any links concerning your Porsche V8 powered 914, aka 918-S. Awesome car! I found in one of the links where your car was in Excellence, the October 2004 issue to be exact. And low and behold, I have it! Boy, was I surprised since I only buy Excellence once in a while and only when it has an article about 928s or something to that effect (which is very rare with articles few and far between dealing with 928s, and 914s for that matter). I must have just overlooked the article when I bought the magazine back in 2004.
#27
Thanks for the nice complements. I did the conversion myself. I built all the parts including the adaptor plate. Everything is one off. I think I took the 914 in the direction Porsche should have gone with it. I love the 928 motor. I don't know how you guys help from not just pulling over, getting out of the car, opening the hood, and staring at the motor. You guys should have a transparent hood! Can't say that about a 911... Not that there is anything wrong with that...
BTW. I have the Disco fabric too! Black and Silver Pasha.
I have the car torn down for a rebuild. Pete Stout has been talking about a feature some day. May we can bring it to the next level.
On topic, The size of the 928 is perfect. As usual Porsche introduced the car with a smaller motor than it can handle. That may have been the start if a mistake.
BTW. I have the Disco fabric too! Black and Silver Pasha.
I have the car torn down for a rebuild. Pete Stout has been talking about a feature some day. May we can bring it to the next level.
On topic, The size of the 928 is perfect. As usual Porsche introduced the car with a smaller motor than it can handle. That may have been the start if a mistake.
#28
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Rennlist Member
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 11,542
Likes: 3
From: Anaheim California
Some of the prototype 928 engines were 5 liters with carburetors no mention of the actual output but easily could have been in excess of 300 hp. The 928 did not need to weigh less which is very difficult to do but simply needed more power ! And much better marketing !