16v vs. 32v Driving Impressions.
02-24-2006, 06:04 PM
#61
Originally Posted by Imo000
Ohh that's right, the seats backs are different than the '83, but the both my door panels look the same as the '83. I think Porsche was extremely inconsistent when it comes to year to year changes.
02-24-2006, 06:05 PM
#62
Originally Posted by heinrich
My '87 5spd has perforated leather doors and rear quarters, and a leather saddle in the rear ... hmmm .....
They didnt come stock so far as i know.
02-24-2006, 06:17 PM
#63
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Originally Posted by Imo000
My old '83 had the 2 speaker door panels, just like the '85 and the '86.5. Maybe the PO change the 83's to a newer one.
02-24-2006, 06:33 PM
#64
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Now back on topic. I have the 16V, have not driven a 32V but what I can say, it is one sweet/smooth engine, great sound from inside(RMB & test pipe to come in the near future) and nice torque (263 ft/lb) but not enough in the low rpm. Other than that, it is a very nice car to drive and non-interference so I have piece of mind. As for the AT, mine does start in 1st up to 5500rpm when the lever is in 2nd on take off. For city driving it's allways in 3rd or lower (no sloshy feeling here), D(4th) is for highway cruz only, heck 60@1800rpm where else but the highway can one use that! 
02-24-2006, 07:05 PM
#66
Drifting
Originally Posted by IcemanG17
because in reality an auto S4 will perform about the same as a 5 speed Euro S....but I'm sure the Euro S will feel faster since its lighter with less sound deading...etc...
Originally Posted by m21sniper
And then there's my US 83 16v motor that is some kind of freak.
My partner had an 85 US 32v and my 16v CLEARLY pulled harder than that one, and the same is true when i lined it up against another 16v US and a 16v Euro.
My partner had an 85 US 32v and my 16v CLEARLY pulled harder than that one, and the same is true when i lined it up against another 16v US and a 16v Euro.
We need to get all the best non-SC examples together to do a little "testing", maybe on blau's euro trip.
02-24-2006, 07:21 PM
#67
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Zat vould be amazink, und verry highly rekkommended.. I vould like zat verrry much to zee...!
Ve kan test in Leipzig on zee A9.. 6 lanes wide for 5-6 kilometers....! Vat a road...! Der nordschleife vould also be gut..! ja ja...!
Ve kan test in Leipzig on zee A9.. 6 lanes wide for 5-6 kilometers....! Vat a road...! Der nordschleife vould also be gut..! ja ja...!
03-14-2006, 03:58 PM
#68
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Originally Posted by tv
Not in the experience that i have read among those who have owned both, look up cheburator. Where's normy when you need him. The euro feels faster because in the real world it is. For me i have 6 less hp than an S4, but less weight and 2.54 vs. 2.2 gearing.
We need to get all the best non-SC examples together to do a little "testing", maybe on blau's euro trip.
We need to get all the best non-SC examples together to do a little "testing", maybe on blau's euro trip.
The way I know - my 5spd S2 is quicker in any gear than a friends S4 Auto with Authority chips. Had a little play on the E40 near Aachen - I was surpised that I was first all the way up to 160mph.
The S2 5spd has a 2.72 rear end vs. the 2.64 found in the S4 5spd, couple that with nearly 120kg lower weight and no wonder I was walking away (slowly) from another '87 S4 5spd.
The GT/GTS - that's a different story, but then again considering that my S2 costs around GBP5000 and my GT is double that - is it worth the difference in performance. Absolutely not. A lightened S2 - sports seats and S4 brakes will stay with a GT on any track...
Just to give you an idea about the overall difference between a manual and auto tranny:
Nurburgring time with a GT with 220,000 miles on the suspension - 8:40...
Nurburgring time with a S2 with 122,000 miles on the suspension and shot brake discs and pads - 9:02...
Nurburgring time of an S4 Auto - chipped and Koni-ed and Ott-ed - 9:24
The driver of the Auto is very good btw...
No wonder I converted my S2 to a manual with a GTS box...
03-14-2006, 04:35 PM
#70
Originally Posted by tv
Sniper, that was lance's non-lh euro. There is a difference.
The LH Euro is only 10 more HP.
Lances car probably ran about a 13.8 on the gas.
Originally Posted by tv
Not in the experience that i have read among those who have owned both, look up cheburator. Where's normy when you need him. The euro feels faster because in the real world it is. For me i have 6 less hp than an S4, but less weight and 2.54 vs. 2.2 gearing.
Last edited by m21sniper; 03-14-2006 at 04:50 PM.
03-14-2006, 04:39 PM
#71
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sure, the weight differences can make a difference, but what are we talking about here. spec is 3350 vs 3500. 150lbs is like 15hp, wow, just what the S4 has over the euro CIS and a few hp more than the euro 310hp model. Now, keep in mind, we are not talking apples and apples. put a cat on the euros and watch the HP drop. take off the cat on a S4 and watch the HP go up. remember, we are talking 5 liter vs 4.7 liter.
all the dynos point to the fact that the S4 is slightly better than the euro, and the US 85 5 liter can be close as well, with the chips and minor exhaust mods.
Gearing is mostly perception as we have gone over before.
acceleration= (mass x velocity)/power .
so, it will depend on the speed range you are racing to, that will determine which will have an advantage. this is shown by the computer similations of the different gear boxes, all other things kept equal (weight, speed ranges, etc)
with stock 300hp, a race to 110mph will favor a 2.2, while to 85mph it will favor a 2.75, with trade offs in between.
sure, the euro S 5 speed is much faster than the auto S4, but thats true for most of the stick vs auto comparisons.
There are so many combinations of the parts of the euro S and the US S4 and US 85-86, that all produce some great performance. Just look at the combo engines. the fact that we can get 295rwhp out of a LJet euro intake and head, 5 liter tells much of the story of comparison.
personally, id like to see an 85 US with S4 heads as the only mod on the engine. 11-12:1 compression GT is what it would be!!
MK
as far as the "Ring" times go, remember a "good" driver can run a Van to a time of near 9min. (i think it was 9:10) and they took a big sedan to a time of 9:00. the "ring " is a tough place to compare times. so may variables and factors.
all the dynos point to the fact that the S4 is slightly better than the euro, and the US 85 5 liter can be close as well, with the chips and minor exhaust mods.
Gearing is mostly perception as we have gone over before.
acceleration= (mass x velocity)/power .
so, it will depend on the speed range you are racing to, that will determine which will have an advantage. this is shown by the computer similations of the different gear boxes, all other things kept equal (weight, speed ranges, etc)
with stock 300hp, a race to 110mph will favor a 2.2, while to 85mph it will favor a 2.75, with trade offs in between.
sure, the euro S 5 speed is much faster than the auto S4, but thats true for most of the stick vs auto comparisons.
There are so many combinations of the parts of the euro S and the US S4 and US 85-86, that all produce some great performance. Just look at the combo engines. the fact that we can get 295rwhp out of a LJet euro intake and head, 5 liter tells much of the story of comparison.
personally, id like to see an 85 US with S4 heads as the only mod on the engine. 11-12:1 compression GT is what it would be!!
MK
as far as the "Ring" times go, remember a "good" driver can run a Van to a time of near 9min. (i think it was 9:10) and they took a big sedan to a time of 9:00. the "ring " is a tough place to compare times. so may variables and factors.
Originally Posted by Cheburator
There will not be a contest - a good, well maintained S2 (LH-Jet, 1984-86, 310Bhp) with a 5spd box will leave any S4 Auto for dead and will out run a S4 5spd. Only a GT/GTS might have something on it.
The way I know - my 5spd S2 is quicker in any gear than a friends S4 Auto with Authority chips. Had a little play on the E40 near Aachen - I was surpised that I was first all the way up to 160mph.
The S2 5spd has a 2.72 rear end vs. the 2.64 found in the S4 5spd, couple that with nearly 120kg lower weight and no wonder I was walking away (slowly) from another '87 S4 5spd.
The GT/GTS - that's a different story, but then again considering that my S2 costs around GBP5000 and my GT is double that - is it worth the difference in performance. Absolutely not. A lightened S2 - sports seats and S4 brakes will stay with a GT on any track...
Just to give you an idea about the overall difference between a manual and auto tranny:
Nurburgring time with a GT with 220,000 miles on the suspension - 8:40...
Nurburgring time with a S2 with 122,000 miles on the suspension and shot brake discs and pads - 9:02...
Nurburgring time of an S4 Auto - chipped and Koni-ed and Ott-ed - 9:24
The driver of the Auto is very good btw...
No wonder I converted my S2 to a manual with a GTS box...
The way I know - my 5spd S2 is quicker in any gear than a friends S4 Auto with Authority chips. Had a little play on the E40 near Aachen - I was surpised that I was first all the way up to 160mph.
The S2 5spd has a 2.72 rear end vs. the 2.64 found in the S4 5spd, couple that with nearly 120kg lower weight and no wonder I was walking away (slowly) from another '87 S4 5spd.
The GT/GTS - that's a different story, but then again considering that my S2 costs around GBP5000 and my GT is double that - is it worth the difference in performance. Absolutely not. A lightened S2 - sports seats and S4 brakes will stay with a GT on any track...
Just to give you an idea about the overall difference between a manual and auto tranny:
Nurburgring time with a GT with 220,000 miles on the suspension - 8:40...
Nurburgring time with a S2 with 122,000 miles on the suspension and shot brake discs and pads - 9:02...
Nurburgring time of an S4 Auto - chipped and Koni-ed and Ott-ed - 9:24
The driver of the Auto is very good btw...
No wonder I converted my S2 to a manual with a GTS box...
03-14-2006, 04:43 PM
#72
Personally..I bet the US 85/86 cars weigh exactly the same as the 87 and up S4's....They pretty much had the exact same equipment, a heavier intake, etc.....Can't see 300 pounds hiding in front and rear end covers..???...
anyone have any real data on the 85/86 US model weights?...
later,
Tom
89Gt..(significantly lightened)
anyone have any real data on the 85/86 US model weights?...
later,
Tom
89Gt..(significantly lightened)
03-14-2006, 04:47 PM
#73
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M21, non-lh euro = CIS Euro 
Normy's car is an 85.
It has been modified or was one of the very last made and they happened to be out of 84 door panels. Some 85s have pre-85 door panels. No 84s should have 85+ door panels.
Cheberator, it's even worse for US S4s. They didn't get the 2.64 gearbox until 89. The 87-88 US S4s are 2.20.
Normy's car is an 85.
Originally Posted by DANdeMAN
My 84 as the 2 speaker door panel and is completly stock unmodefied.
Cheberator, it's even worse for US S4s. They didn't get the 2.64 gearbox until 89. The 87-88 US S4s are 2.20.
03-14-2006, 04:52 PM
#74
Originally Posted by FlyingDog
M21, non-lh euro = CIS Euro Normy's car is an 85.
It has been modified or was one of the very last made and they happened to be out of 84 door panels. Some 85s have pre-85 door panels. No 84s should have 85+ door panels.
Cheberator, it's even worse for US S4s. They didn't get the 2.64 gearbox until 89. The 87-88 US S4s are 2.20.
Normy's car is an 85.It has been modified or was one of the very last made and they happened to be out of 84 door panels. Some 85s have pre-85 door panels. No 84s should have 85+ door panels.
Cheberator, it's even worse for US S4s. They didn't get the 2.64 gearbox until 89. The 87-88 US S4s are 2.20.
My dear old departed 84 (vin 600 range ie. early 84) had the two speaker doors...and was totally stock. That is when the switch occurred for the US cars....mid 84 model year (probably late 83 year wise). Many of the Euro cars had the single speaker perforated doors since the US got all the premium stereo stuff....shows our priorities
......All 86 Euros got the big brembo brakes...since it was deemed that they needed them...and we in the US ..did not.....later,
Tom
89GT
03-14-2006, 04:52 PM
#75
Originally Posted by FlyingDog
M21, non-lh euro = CIS Euro Normy's car is an 85.
Normy's car is an 85.LOL.
Yeah, i know, i was editing my post above right when you were posting this one. Hehehehe. LH Euro is 310hp, CIS Euro is 300hp.