tv

You guts can fight all you want but just get a good euro lh and be done with it. Faster. lighter, better sounding, better gearing, all leather etc. Many owners with good S2's and even GT's take the euro. But hey its good that the real truth finally comes out. Everybody likes THEIR 928!

Garth S

Just to slip back to Jims question that started this thread for a moment, one must qualify the question with what type of driving turns your crank: the responses have evolved into a debate about quarter mile times .... and that's perfectly OK if drag racing is important, or you do your thing on the freeway where acceleration and top speed are important: were that my first choice of roads, the S4 would be there; however, if over the road performance, twisty secondary highways that call on good handling appeal to you - I don't think anyone will be disappointed with a 16v 5-sp that is reasonably well set up. The sweet spot of gearing and torque is right there where needed for this type of driving - and the 16v gives up nothing to other Porsche models that are driven by competent drivers that allow for reasonable safety on (clear) public roads.
If for DE/ track events, the S4 clearly has more grunt .... but - one still has to become a very good pilot to exceed the 'limits' of the 16v cars: to illustrate, one of our fastest drivers here pushes a 924S. He is an excellent 'momentum' driver, carrying the momentum of a modestly powered car smoothly through the apex - but could lose straightaway speed to any number of other Porsche models, although not necessarily lap time.
In my limited experience, the 16v sounds and feels much more like a track motor ( go back and read Brendans comments in post #8) - it will scream as it zings to redline, burble beautifully on over run - and make you smile all day long ..... but the S4 will whip it's a$$ in flat out acceleration and top end.
All back to what type of driving makes you smile ...

Mark

Another statement that just cannot be applied in every case! Check the posts - auto tranny problems are NOT common. In fact - the MB AT is often referred to as "near bullet proof". The twin disc clutch setups on the manuals give FAR more problems then the auto trannys. And the early manual cars have HORRIBLE (and very well documented) synchro problems.

As to the 2nd gear start - a simpl R'list search will show you how to EASILY change this with the addition of a couple of feet of wire and a $1.00 switch.

NOW - to the original question...Without a doubt - the S4 is a bit more 'refined' then the 32v's. Additionally - like ANY car...(especially after 15-20 years of age), there WILL be differences between any 2 of the same MY.

So - it becomes a matter of personal preference...and the condition/mods of the cars you are considering. The best advice I can give you - be patient in your search. Seek out many different 928's. Drive them. Buy the one you like the best REGARDLESS of MY! (And - DON'T FORGET A PPI BY A SHARK-KNOWLEDGEABLE WRENCH!!!).

PS - I LOVE my '85 EURO 310HP "Rocket ship". And yes, with the exhaust mods, it DOES soune "quite angry"!!! As to performance...in INFORMAL driving comparisons at 928 gatherings, no other 928 (well - at least those without SC's!) have given me any problems, or had anywhere near a 2 second performance advantage. YMMV!

Mark

OH...and one more thing....

I'm not into 1/4 mile dragging....If I were - I'd own an old hemi 'cuda or Challenger or GTO or some other old American muscle. 928's were NOT designed for this...or they'd weigh about 1200 pounds less!!! They are GT's...."Asphalt Eaters" as i like to refer to them....a car you can jump into for a road trip...run triple digits for hours on end, and have little-to-no driver fatigue.

As to posting of time slips...can I just post a pic of my SCCA Solo II (AX) region champ award? (IN AN AUTOMATIC!!)

AO

I think Bredan describes it quite accurately. The only caveat I would put on is all the 928's sound quite tame untill you open up the exhaust. Then they really come alive. And I would assume Brendans reference to the rabid dog thing is mostly directed toward euros, where the bite is worse than the bark... in a VERY good way!

Imo000

It doesn’t really matter if one likes or doesn’t like drag racing. The bottom line is that it’s a very good indicator of how well a 928 can accelerate. It’s essentially a 0-100mph test and nothing more. If a 928 does well in the ¼ it will do just as well on the highway at over 100mph speeds. As for handling, pretty much all 928s handle almost the same if they have the same tires and rims.

I don’t believe that other early 32V are seconds slower than an S4. If it is then there is something seriously wrong with that car. All the specs, even the factory published numbers, are extremely close or same as the S4. The only minor difference between them is the slightly more hp of the S4. Since the S4 is heavier this pretty much becomes a none issue. What I first posted was that if both 5-speed cars are CHIPPED, I believe the ’85-’86 32V will be the faster of the two.

Heinrich,

You would be surprised if you saw my car probably a bit disappointed cause before the SC it looked just like any other ’85. I’ve compared it to my ’86.5 project car and there are no visible visual differences between the two engines. This all started to change last spring when the supercharger went on, and with the addition of the intercooler, it starts to look like a +450hp engine.

Glenncal1

Well I guess since my original post has generated 35 replies I got some more 'splaining to do. I have a daughter who is turning 16 this year, I have a Mits Montero I use as a daily driver and to add her to the insurance policy on that car will only cost an additional $200 if I buy a second "car" and put that on my regular insurance policy the additional insurance will be over $1000. So I am thinking I get an older 928 (yes with an auto, I have the SC for sports driving) get collector insurance for ~$200. I get a fun second car (and a P car to boot) and my insurance bill is about 20%. So I was looking for the differences in driving qualities between 16v and 32v cars and you guys gave me that., if there was some extra discussion that is what boards are for.

So I will look for a 32v car (more power is always better) but if a good 16v comes along I might buy it. Flame on. Jim

heinrich

Imo, point well taken Dude. I have learnt something new today. I do know that Shane's Helmut feels and drives like a bloody vicious killer monster PIRANHA. I can't describe it any other way. Maybe I need to take another look at my 86, instal those new plug wires I've had for 6 months, and start enjoying the car as I do my S4. Of course the S4 has been lightened a *little*, having lost ac, rear ac unit, heavy seats and some other things. Hmmmmm .....

heinrich

You sound like a good guy Jim, you're welcome for a beer or two and a barbie any day up here in Seattle

Jim_H

Having had an S4 with an auto my opinion is they kick ***. Youo can manually shift them into 1st, in fact I drove my auto like a stick. They are tough tranny's.

Jim_H

Here are the factory engine specs off of the 928SP page. I don't know how to post it any other way... someone?

After looking at the factory specs youo have to take in the different upgrades year to year, LSD, PSD, auto, manual etc. Claiming one is 'the' best is totally personal opinion. I would chose the 91 GT and have many reasons for my preference. However, eventually I am going to purchase a 16 valve Euro.

Seems everyones favorite year/model and the one they consider the best is the one they own, cool.

swoop

Hi everyone,

I am not a Race/Expert driver however I am an observant person by nature.
I have to say that after driving the following cars here are my impressions of each.

1. 1989 S4 Auto
2. 1986.5 S Auto
3. 1980 (My car) Auto

1989 S4, US Auto:
I took this car out for 1/2 an hour test drive last summer and my impressions were that this particular model on the highway and sweeping high speed curves was the most incredible thing I have ever driven. It just feels like nothing can touch you and the performance is limitless. I certainly don't have the experience to over drive the capabilities of this car. At acceleration and tight cornering however, I was not as impressed.
It didn't have a nimble "dart like" feel to it and actually felt a little out of place and heavy. I think this must be due to the gearing. I also found it to be a little sluggish in city driving (like the car was only interested in stretching its legs.

1986.5 S, US Auto
This seemed to have a little bit more of a kick in the pants on acceleration but not by much over that of the S4. From about 2200 RPM to about 3400 RPM I am convinced that my 1980 could really pull away on it. However, once the 86.5 reaches over 4500 RPM the car feels like it has another gear which I know it does that actually pins you in your seat! I felt like a jockey that just whipped the horse.
BTW Breaking on both the S4 and S are nothing short of astonishing.

1980, US Auto:
If I could describe this car in a word it would be "balanced". It feels very nimble in the tight corners. It has great acceleration, especially out of the corners and strong breaking (not on the same level as the others, but it doesn't seem to need it)
I think because of the gearing and where this 16V makes its power, it is right in the sweet spot for tight country or city road driving with lot of up and down grades. It also helps that it is a little lighter than the other two I am sure. The car just feels like you can through it around and change direction quicker.

Conclusion:
All three cars are supreme examples of automotive excellence and engineering achievement.

1. 1989 S4 Auto = The Concord (Proclamation of The Pinnacle For GT Performance)
2. 1986.5 S Auto = The Jack of All Trades (Does back country roads and High speed transport extremely well)
3. 1980 = The Dash and Dart (Vintage sports car feel. Light and nimble)

Just my thoughts. Please keep in mind that although the condition of all 3 cars are excellent, there might be
internal variables that might contribute to my evaluation of the performance (ie. a disconnected vacuum hose etc.)

It is amazing that a single car through its production run has taken on so many different personalities. All of which contribute to the thought of this car as being a magnificent cornerstone in automotive history.

Trevor
1980 Porsche 928 Auto

heinrich

I remember Pat Edwards' PREDATOR, with straight pipes front to tail. IMHO, there is no 928 louder than an '85/6 with open pipes. None. Not by a long shot. My muffler fell off one of my 85's one day, and I didn't want to replace it

heinrich

Hey now, who you calling fat?!!???

AO

Yep. After "Beer Night" here in Detroit, Sharks (Mark H.) and I often drive back together. I fell in love with his 86.5 with stright pipes. OMG... Drool! The reverb off the center median is incredible. On the way home there are 3 tunnels (okay... long overpasses)...