AO

Hey Sab, I don't think thats' gonna help. I'm not supercharged yet, and I got nabbed for 108. Kepp the boost, amputate part of the foot!

Royal Tiger

I meant to go more into the radar thing, but I had to go. In PA, only the State Police can use radar. Municipal and County officers can only use other types of speed timing. Such as VASCAR, ACCU-TRAK, ESP (most accurate in use, better then radar and laser), pacing (we all know this doesn't work), and Traker. There might be some others. VASCAR, ACCU-TRAK, and Traker use timing from white lines or other fixed objects. ESP uses a set of timing lights similar to the ones used at a drag strip. Since the box is only 3 feet long, it's hard to accelerate, decelerate, or change your speed in 3 feet. Radar is less accurate the more the target vehicle is off line from the gun. Think of it like a cone, and the more you are off center, the less of a reading you get back. You also can not time anyone traveling perpendicular to you with radar. Radar can also time your defroster if you try and use it through the windshield with the defroster or A/C on. That goes for handhelds. The mounted ones have antennas mounted outside the vehicle.

MGW-Fla

Ok,.... all that info is what I kinda knew or suspected, not sure if that gives me a "warm n fuzzy" feeling to be hearing it from your side or not!! But I appreciate your honesty about it. Does suck with the "one bad apple", that can apply to all professions. I'm glad he was able to get justice in his instance. I think many times an officer can assume that many wont take the time, effort, $$ & hassel to fight it, especially if theres a chance the person would have to travel to go to court. Seems like the troopers here in the Sunshine State are getting more active this past year, maybe for valid reasons.... and..... maybe since we are one of the few states without a state income tax & revenues perhaps are down!

heinrich

Tigershark, it is good to hear from someone like you. Sadly, because we own "fast cars", we deal with "law enforcement" more often than we'd like to out there on the roads. It's become a game. If SAFETY were the bottom line, we'd never have a problem. Or if REASONABLE enforcement were the bottom line, we'd never complain. Unfortunately, we do deal with "bad apples" far too often. I was pulled over in my red 911 for "speeding" just after pulling off from a traffic light behind someone else, while tuning left across oncoming traffic in a 45mph zone. When he stormed up to me with the accusation i pointed to the traffic light no more than 50 yards away and asked him how he thought I might have exceeded 45mph between the intersection and where I was stopped.

He handed me my licence after cooling off in his croozer and told me to have a nice day.

This is the norm. Another guy pulled right up onto my rear bumper (I kid you not) no more than one foot away in a TAHOE and flipped on the blues. Gave me a ticket for speeding, 10 over on the freeway in the carpool lane with my little daughter in the rear seat. I felt like shouting at him for endangering my child's life for a f!@@#$ 10 over ticket like that.

I've had a few very good experiences also with law enforccement on the road. Most of those were in California. I don't mind getting a fair and square ticket, but I really do mind the other stuff quite a bit. I'll tell you this: In Washington the first words out of everyone's mouth is "it's the law, you get caught breaking it, don't complain". Unfortunately everyone also knows here, when a state patrol croozer drives 80 in a 60, you are welcome to cruise behind him. Don't try to pass. happens almost daily. They lead cars at way over the speed limit, but when they catch you, suddenly you're bad because you broke the law. I once followed a trooper for twenty miles down I-5 in the left lane at 11pm on a Saturday night. The road was empty, six lanes open to his right, and he sat in the left lane for 20 miles. While the law says, "keep right except to pass".

Royal Tiger

I hate to slam my fellow brothers and sisters, but the south, particularly Florida does not have the best reputation, even on the inside. The northeast and California are generally regarded as the best areas in law enforcement circles as far as training, education, policy, etc... When the FBI stats are released, the northeast (MD, PA, NJ, DE, NY, CT, MA, NH, VT, ME, & RI) are ALWAYS last in Officers killed. Now some of that has to do with population density as well as training. When I was stationed in Texas I spoke with a Texas D.P.S. (like a State Trooper up here) and he said his back-up could be 1 1/2 hours away. That could explain some of the nastyness some people report in dealing with them. When you are on your own, everyone could be a threat and you can never relinquish control, as once it's lost, it is near impossible to regain. I only cite on average, 40-45% of the people I stop. Attitude has alot to do with it. If you have one, you are leaving with a citiation. But everyone is different. I know some "power brokers" on my own department.

Royal Tiger

P.S. heinrich, nice quote from Ferris Bueller in your sig!

heinrich

Thanks Tigershark in Washington, if they stop you, you are getting cited. Period. it's very rare that they don't. i think it has something to do with the fact that this state lost almost all its funding because tabs came down from crazy high to 30 dollars each. i used to pay 860 a vehicle, now i pay 60.

nickg

simple solution, subpeona the tape from his onboard video system, it will include all of his and likely your audio and more importantly, you will see your car cross in front of him on the road he claims you were on if that is the case. i most states the video also records vehicle speed and radar indicated speed of the cars infront of him, you will also hear or see him pacing you if he did that ...this will make it pretty obvious if he is dicking you...and he will get fired and arrested himself if he is. I would do this rather quickly and make sure that it does not get destroyed, if they cannot cough it up then you should have the judge toss the ticket out on the basis of that.

Royal Tiger

I used to live in NJ, and am fairly confident, no judge will sign a subpeona for a dash camera for a traffic ticket. Especially for the defense, i.e. you. If there was a major incident, like the infamous Georgia or South Carolina Trooper that pulled the lady out of the car, that usually gets released by court order. Also since I brought that up, the lady drove for over 5 miles before stopping after he "light her up". Not something the media reported. How many people knew Rodney King was chased for over 45 minutes at speeds over 90mph before the beating? Exactly. Not saying he deserved all the blows, but adrenelin is a tricky thing to overcome. Ask a combat vet. I've been shot at, and the whole time slowing down and tunnel vision part is true. It seems like it took 10 minutes when the whole thing lasted maybe 8 or 9 seconds.

Fogey1

[QUOTE=Tigershark]wrote
"I have met many crooked lawyers and doctors, but unless you are affected by them personally, no one cares. But one bad cop, and everyone holds a grudge. Good for you for beating a bad apple."


We should feel a grudge. Crooked docs and most lawyers aren't armed public employees with the full weight of the state behind them, though I've known some scary, contempuous of the constitution prosecutors. And, if the story's as it was told, it's a shame he didn't beat him worse. There's a reason official oppression is a crime. Bad cops, bad prosecutors and bad judges undermine respect for the rule of law and faith in our institutions, which is a lot more socially corrosive in the long run than most crimes.

That said, over the last 42 years I've been stopped for speeding and sometimes ticketed in a majority of lower 48. None of these encounters have been less than polite, though some were on the frosty side. There's never been one where I wasn't technically vulnerable to a speeding ticket but no more than a couple where I _might_ agree I was dangerous to myself or others.

I understand the combat rules/adrenalin rushes most cops have to live with and i sympathize, it's one reason I'm polite. In '92, on one of my more cordial stops I asked the trooper if he'd seen me do anything dangerous. He said no and wrote me for 89 in a 65, after having followed the 911 for more than 20 minutes on the dry, empty, nighttime interstate at 110-120, waiting for backup in case I ran (we were approaching a state border). I don't think I deserved a ticket (not dangerous, remember?) but I do live in the real world and I know I got a break.

Ron H, If I'd had some of the long-range resources now available I'd probably have fought that one with engineering study arguments and so forth.

Royal Tiger

I agree with what you are saying and even the way you said it, my point is one bad incident is held against all of us. If the story is true as stated, even I'm pissed because he has no place in this job. I'm also happy with the reception from all of you to my viewpoints. And since I have driven a 928 S4 on 3 occasions in the last few months, they may not have all been at 55 . I have never cited a Porsche. I hope to keep that a life time streak. But it all depends on the circumstances. Can't play favorites.

Ron_H

Fogey, I surely wish you had fought that one with all the vigor in your being. That is precisely the kind of thing that irks my okole. Here are the facts:

open road, little or no traffic
observed safe for conditions operation of vehicle for TWENTY MINUTES
vehicle was designed for operational conditions and not operated beyond
capabilities
observed no threats to public or anticipated threats and unlikely to be threats
no threat to officer

What was the problem?

Bad laws are passed every day. In San Francisco, there is an acient law that prohibits spitting on the sidewalk. Do it and face criminal charges, even if it is to save your life (say a bee flew into your throat, or you are choking). Who would object to such an action? An overzealous police officer intent on making a bust. No useful purpose at all. And police officers have discretion to enforce such laws based on specific conditions at the time; we just heard from one.

No support exists for your bust. None. No scientifically founded or rational support. Just someone's unthinking abuse of discretion, coupled with a misinformed belief placed in the officer's mind by someone with an unsupported aggenda. Perhaps an insurance company funded "study" with skewered data dated 1932 when conditions and driver training were not the same as today. Certainly the officer had his brain on "stand-by" rather than operative. Or perhaps it was just plain jealousy. just because someone pins a badge on their shirt doesn't mean they now have relinquished the responsibility to cease questioning and reasoning. As has been pointed out in this forum, in other parts of the world you would have been waved on with the knowledge that you were operating your superior machine appropriately. Medieval beliefs must change. And not only traffic laws, but beliefs and practices in other societal areas such as drugs and medicine and health. Such beliefs are killing us, literally.

And here is another point which may generate initial resentment, but I'll state it anyway. The assumption that something awful MIGHT have happened when in fact no danger of it happening existed at all. There is always risk. Life has risks. Even sitting in a crib has its risks. Some risks will be realized, and unfortunately harm will happen no matter how much we try to avoid danger. A bee could have flown into your mouth, so you should not breathe at all? Hey, why not simply kill yourself now and avoid the realization of an imagined risk?
Why not scrap the space program because it has killed some people? What is worse is the unrealistic fear of risk, to the point of rendering the organism incapable of reacting appropriately to a crisis. Atrophy and immaturity. I have scars. I lived through pain and mistakes and other's faults as well as my own. Zero risk is unacceptable. We are not infants. But we run and hide at the first sight of rain....mere water on our heads. Because we MIGHT slip and fall on our okole. But until it happens, it is only imagined. Watch the majority of drivers as they perceive the presence of a patrol car on the freeway. They all slow to the posted limit. When that patrol car takes an off ramp, most of them increase speeds above the limit. But do many of them then suffer accidents because of their increased speed? No. Nothing usually happens that wouldn't have happened at the reduced speed, and statistically, less accidents happen at the increased speed. Yet we are told that the increased speed is more dangerous. Nothing supports that claim but childish simplistically flawed "reasoning". Nothing. Because traffic flows more efficiently as water finds its own level. And the traffic engineers KNOW this. If you make the sidewalk so level and without hazard eventually the users will not expect to need to watch their step. A twig on the pavement will put them in the hospital.

As the NRA states: I love my country, but I fear my government. Especially an armed government official intent on impressing his tribal peers.

End of rant.

Royal Tiger

I agree there is a difference between 15 over on a 4 lane divided highway and through a residential street. Would you object to someone doing 50 in a 35 in front of your house? I'm sure you would. But 80 in a 55 is not a big deal. But the problem is have you seen who in this country does 80 in a 55? It's enough to make you wish you owned a helicopter. I have seen people reading a newspaper while doing 75 on the turnpike. Some people can drive better then others, that's a given, but you need a standard. How could you enforce 20 over if you based it upon ability? As for you around the world comment, Finland fines you based upon your income. Make more, pay more. Ask Kimi Rakkionen. I'm sure some people here could safely do 100 on I-95, but more can't then can, and there lies the problem.

Royal Tiger

P.S. sorry I keep chiming in, but I'm bored and I LOVE this site so far!

Ron_H

Keep commenting. We need the viewpoint. Some of my best friends have been police officers, and many of them thinking ones.

We need to gradually increase the standards to which we expect people to perform until we are back to our potential. Others may not agree with my Darwinian approach, but it thins the herd and the survivors are better able to cope. Just as we profess to presume innocence(despite the fact that guilty persons are thus allowed to roam freely until detected as the price of that presumption), I want the presumption of ability and judgement (even at the price of occasional mishap by unworthy individuals abusing that presumption).
I am well aware of the left lane hogs yakking on their cell phones and the idiot rednecks in their broken down pickups with one hand on their Budweiser daring anyone to pass them. Cite them and don't presume that because there is stormy water my boat will sink. Just enforcing the left lane rule will improve traffic conditions, as other drivers will acknowledge their need to pay attention.
The speed limit will not protect anyone. Having to pay attention at all times will more likely serve that purpose. And raising the bar a few notches at a time until we realized we could actually function at more than a 10 year old level, and need to cooperate as we use the roads.

Asking me to believe that operating a vehicle such as a CGT at a speed of 90 mph on an open and clear and visible road by a capable driver is dangerous on its face is an insult to my intelligence. It may be dangerous. But to prohibit it in all cases is absurd. And that CGT may hit a nail and suffer a flat tire. That is still no reason to assume that it is safe at 70 and unsafe at 80. Ridiculous. Define "safe". There are only degrees of relative safety.

Give me less time on the road and I can function more efficiently while I am on the road; prohibit my speed and I need to spend more time to reach a destination and will less attentive as I do it. Perceiving risk in a thinking individual would tend to make that individual more attentive. I agree that many individuals have a problem perceiving ANYTHING. Well, keep them out of the left lane, please.

And as for speed relative to situation, I am one of those odd fellows who slow in a school zone while others fly by me honking. FWIW.