m21sniper

"That's what they are hoping you will do.
Personally, I would rather contest any moving citation. To each his own.

I guess it depends on your disposable income."

I never said i don't fight them, i just expect them, so they don't upset me much. I do always fight them though, regardless.

silverbullet

Last week I got a bad ticket too. I was on 210 going toward DC, never any cops, and my friend was staring at the boost gauge. He asked why it never showed any boost. Already doing 60 in a 55, I hit the gas for a second to show him how the gauge works, BAM!! County cop gets me for 85 in a 55!

Sab

At least you where on the gas pedal. If I was cought racing or screaming down the highway, I would just staid quiet and go to school or try to fight it on a technicality and hope for no points but court fees.
What really pissed me off, I was cruising down the highway checking my voice mail.
If I was going 105, I would have had my hands on the wheel and most certainly noticed the little *****, since I would have been highly alert.

Joe F

That's more like it.

m21sniper

I also save all the tickets.

Badges of honor they are...

Nicole

I would only hire a lawyer, if the first attempt in court fails. But I'd certainly go to court. The trollper might not show up out of embarassment...

Either way, write down all details of where you were coming from, when and why, who has seen you there, the times, locations, and what was said.

Talk and listen to Dr. Ron and prepare yourself for the court date. I can't imagine a judge in his right mind to convict you.

Best of luck - this sucks. But your support group on rennlist will help you through those rough times.

Ron_H

"If I was going 105, I would have had my hands on the wheel and most certainly noticed the little *****, since I would have been highly alert."

Thank you. You have made my day. That is precisely the point.

Now, you need to do what others have said and write down all that was said as accurately and objectively as possible. Do you have anyone who can verify your origin and that you could not have taken the route the officer claimed you took, because you had to travel a different route? If so, pay them a witness fee to testify if necessary. Record all the conditions on the road as well as you can remember: daytime, clear, light/medium traffic moving at about what speed, etc. Record all surrounding road conditions such as any unusual or hazardous conditions. I have been on I-75 and recall it being good for about ...oh...125 mph on an average day with light traffic in a 928. Beautiful road.

Next check to determine if Florida is a "basic speed law" state or if it has a maximum speed statute for freeways as does California. This is important. (We want a ticket like this). Check on the web for statutes for your state and you should find a site that allows you to browse whatever your Vehicle Code is called there. Also define what is callled "reckless driving" as opposed to a lesser speed offense; in California it is 100 mph and falls under a different statute. You should know what you are contesting.

Next research your options for pleading and if you even have an option for dodging the bullet by plea bargaining and traffic school; forget the "right or wrong" of this (though it is wrong), and list your options. You will need to identify a strategy and aim for that. Research past practices for best and worst case scenarios in cases like this, such as what if I...(take this course of defense)...what will the prosecution do.

Then hire an attorney if you aren't comfortable conducting your own defense. Do not hire anyone but a traffic attorney and one that has a record of wins. It will hurt, but as someone already advised, it may as well be to the attorney than to these theives and thugs. I can't underestimate the worth of an attorney in this kind of a case since it is high enough to do some serious damage to you, and the court can beat you up if you are not represented. At the very minimum, demand a court reporter be present at all trial sessions or have the sessions taped. Are you allowed a jury trial if you demand one? In California that right had been denied for traffic offenses by declaring most of them "infractions". If you want to sock it to them, and can, demand a jury triall. It will become evident rapidly why that can work for you. If you want an attorney check with NMA.org for a list of activists in your area, or email me and I can ask someone I know. Or you can email chad@hwysafety.com and ask him.

If you want to conduct your own defense, email me. Or research past threads on this subject. This kind of case pisses me off as well.

DFWX

While I have not had such problems in a Porsche, it was routine when I drove a Maserati.
Going to the judge is a loser - they essentially always will rule with the police.
You DO need a lawyer, though you also must call the shots.
WHAT STATE ARE YOU IN?
It makes a HUGE difference whether the traffic court is "a court of record" or not. If not,
anything that happens in the traffic court is irrelevant as you can "appeal de novo" to a
higher court for a new trial as though the first never happened.
You must NOT pay the fine - or its over. Remember, the real cost is what it will do to your
insurance, not the ticket cost.
Make careful notes - did he show you the radar display? Was he impolite? A ticket case
can be very simple (you then lose) or very complicated (you win).
Sadly, you can not do this without an attorney.
I was a JP (which included traffic tickets by troopers) for 12 years in the largest such
district in Texas, and a trainer of all such judges in Texas. Some were real jerks, to be
candid. I recall one standing up at a training session, boosting that "me and my trooper
never lost a case." He was the judge - imagine that.
That ticket would go on your record - meaning any time any police ran your tags, they
come up with the "over 30 mph" finding of guilt - so then they pull you over too.
It takes an attorney to address this. You will regret it if you do not "fight' the ticket,
but do so wisely.
This means not letting the attorney make all decisions. Ultimately, you must. But the
ticket is so serious that you do need an attorney - and I generally do not care for
attorneys.
Mark
(FIVE 928s)

DFWX

Follow up...
It is unfortunate that a person always feels compelled to write, "I generally support the police, but..."
as though "supporting the police" is a duty.
I was a law and order judge for over a decade, and I do not "support the police", nor oppose them.
There are a lot of bad ones.
I am tired of seeing endless signs and stickers everywhere threatening me. Flashing DWI threat signs,
a photo of a trooper threating me if I drive off without paying for gas, threatening ads on TV showing
a dozen police around someone for not wearing a seat belt...
The USA has the world's record for the most numbers of citizens in prison and the highest percentage of citizens in prison.
Driving home from the DFW metroplex, mostly down roads with maybe 1 car every 5 minutes,
I will commonly pass 5 to 10 radar set ups - along sections where the speed limit is lowered just
to make a speed trap. Giving working people tickets for 4 miles over the speed limit - meaning they didn't ride their brakes going down hill.
While the numbers of police soar, the number of intersections without street signs falls, and the mile marker and speed limit signs disappear.
I recall a case (years ago) in which a Sheriff's deputy gave two young fellas tickets for street racing -
a costly and serious-against-their-record ticket. One was in a turbo Carera. The other in his Mom's Ford. I explained that maybe he could have given them tickets for speed, running stop signs or whatever else they may have done. But that there was no such thing as a turbo 911 and a Ford LTD
LTD. As judge, I stopped the trial at that point and went not-guilty on both.
There is no such thing as a turbo 911 and a 1978 Ford LTD "racing, any more than there
could be a race between a 911 turbo and a horse" - my exact words actually.
I gave up going on long distance cruising due to the endless numbers of radar units and
literally got rid of a twin turbo Maserati some years ago as it became essentially undrivable
due to frequency of being stopped - lliterally stopped twice by troopers for "going suspiciously
slow", ie "no one goes 62 in a 70 mph zone in a Maserati unless they are doing something wrong."

Actually, I have had very good luck on traffic stops in terms of tickets - but know how to talk
to officers. But it has become absurd in terms of attitudes towards driving.
Racing now is considered to be worse that a burglar and only one step below a rapist - and
everyone wants to be a cop, too. When I see someone cruising down an open Interstate at
8o+, my attitude is "go for it!". But others in my car usually say, "look at that maniac!"

Our "land of the free" is terribly becoming land of the imprisoned and land of the regulated.

Troopers (and radar police) also endanger people - often. One New Year's eve I literallly pulled into a motel rather than continue home for safety. It was not fear of drunks. Rather, the troopers and
police were pulling people over in a way now common and extremely dangerous. They pull oonto the shoulder and then aim their flood lights at the driver's mirror - meaning into uncoming traffic. This meant coming over hills into 1,000,000 candle power lights shining into on-coming traffic. People,
particularly older people, are blinded by this and were weaving all over the road being blinded.
The police so making the road so dangerous that I pulled into a motel.
Anyway, fight the ticket with an attorney.

Steve J.

I would have slammed on the brakes. Trooper rear-ends me. I call 911 for an ambulance (whiplash) and sue for his wreckless driving and injuring me and my car. Could this work?

tammons

Just another ******* South florida Cop. Most of them are good decent people but there are definately a few bad apples down here. Just a note, I have gotten out of every ticket I have ever gotten using a ticket attorney.

If your liscense is clean, they can probably get you off without even a fine. Palm Beach County is tougher.

On top of that its cheap, like $65.

Schocki

I read most of the replies and I always wonderd how this works here in the US?

There is NO proof at all regardless where or who pulls you over after he got you with a radar gun. When you drive in Germany and they give you a ticket, you drove through a setup speed trap. They will take your picture give you the exact speed, time and they can even see whoe drove the car. That whole package is mailed to you. You have a hard time fighting that because it is pretty much bullet proof.

If there is no speed trap they will follow you with an unmarked police car and videotape you. They will stop you after they have ENOUGH evidence and give you an instant replay. The instant replay again gives you all data that you need to see if you were spedding or e.g not keeping the correct safety distance!

In Germany there are always 2 guys in the car. Why? In case they need a witness!

Speed checks by a single police officer and a radar gun are (from my point of view) no proof at all for anything, sorry. Speed checks ar necessary, but they way they are done here is not right. There are to many variables. Even if an officer shows you the radar gun, what does it show? Your car are somebody who flew by half an hour ago?

Just wanted to give you my opinion, I just think it is not right!

Stopping somebody and telling him that he was speeding with a radar gun only is not good enough. I was lucky so far, I never got a speeding ticket in the US or in Germany. Hope it stays like this...

SMTCapeCod

This is frustrating. But I suppose its a bit less venting and spouting of BS than I see among the kiddies on the Mitsubishi forum.

People are right in that the state is important. Each state's courts have their own culture.
Its possible that the first hearing might be just that- a hearing with a magistrate. Or, that could follow the first court appearance.

Its important to try to find out whether the traffic citations are usually represented by the issuing officer, a court officer, or an assistant district attorney. Also whether there is a particular traffic court, or whether its lumped under the same legal system.

My personal friendly thoughts would be to contest the ticket and file for a hearing.
Prosecution goes first, let the trooper relate his story, or let the state's representative do it.
Then you convey the facts about your actual coarse of travel, and ask for specifics about the length of time/mileage that the tropper 'paced' you. After all, if he spent the whole time accelerating to reach you, then he had no time to operate at the same speed as you to ascertain your rate of travel. Pacing covers some distance to do right. You can also ask whether his Camaro had a certified spedometer- works in some states not in others.
And, I wouldn't even be afraid to fess up and state your point that you were above the speed limit and would've accepted an accurate citation - and that you are amenable to something reasonable if the court decrees an agreement, but that the main facts are simply innacurate. But thats just me, I'm a little overboard with honesty sometimes.


All the crap about Porsches being presumed guilty, arrogant cops -- particularly troopers-- getting their rocks off from manhandling non-negligent drivers etc, etc. is -- most often-- a buncha crap. Which isn't to say that people haven't had bad experiences - I've had my own for sure. But the cascade of invective the follows someone announcing they got cited is pretty ridiculous. People forget about the number of times some of these guys seem a motorcyclist thats nothing but a tangled mess of bone, sinew and offal because of a person that thought they were 'only going a little over the speed limit'..thought they 'could make the ramp'..whatever. There's no excuse for transferring the response to those incidents to other encounters, but the motivation for most of them and their actions is to help avoid such circumstances. For all the folks that have no use for cops & troopers, well next time you get robbed/mugged/bombed/flooded, deal with it your own self, hm-K?
At any rate there's a decent chance from your description that this trooper may have realized he made an error- too bad he wasn't good enough to face that on the spot, but if thats the case your trip through court might be expedited/uncontested.

DFWX

I do not buy the concept of "if you don't like police, next time you need help call a hiippy."
It is not different than concerns of crooked repair shops and repairmen - though both are necessary.
Police officers are not volunteers, they are employees. They exist only to the extent the public allows them to and have no more power than allowed to have.
Speeders do not kill cyclists, inattentive drivers do - usually slow ones.
The previous writer pointing out there are no checks upon police misconduct in traffic stops is correct. Having been a traffic judge for many years and coming to know many such officers personally, while some are very honest, many (many) were not. And even less were cautious of who the pull over.

Radar guns hanging off of cars or on the dash are particularly inaccurate and hand held ones very dependent upon exact aiming. Often, they are picking out a car out of a wave of cars and trucks - basically guessing which one is the one that was speeding.

A false speeding ticket is not a minor thing - particularly to working people. Fines are quite high now and the insurance costs associated even much higher. A speeding ticket can literally cost a driver thousands of dollars when insurance is factored in. And it is a criminal conviction.

In reality, the Defendant's chair has become the guilty chair and of all but the wealthy, the presumption is for guilt. In actual criminal law, a person is usually less punished for pleading not guilty (will do more jail time) than pleading out.

People who drive Porsches tend not to have to face the realities of what our legal system has become.

Many departments still opt not to have video cameras in their cars specifically to avoid documentation of what occurs. The reality is that most judges and jurors will take what a police officer says as absolute truth without anything but what the officer says. Therefore, video cameras most serve the defense. You may notice that even among those that do have video cameras, essential none include the display of the radar numbers. This is not due to technical difficulties.

I was not only a judge, but involved in numerous levels of training of judges and police, and involved in legislative issues related to this - plus many, many candid private discussions as to actual concerns
and motives.

Tickets are primarily for income and, increasingly, also to obtain numbers for federal $$.

Nor do I believe most accidents are speed related. Few are. Accidents are most related to inattentiveness, falling asleep and substance abuse. In urban areas, speed limits are not related to safety whatsoever, but rather for EPA air quality issues and federal mandates. The push for more tickets also is supported by the insurance industry - as they then have reason to raise rates against such drivers. There is no danger whatsoever in going 78 miles an hours on open Interstate. There are numerous economic interests in ticketing those who do.

Still another failure of the criminal justice system is lose of perspective. For every officer working
a significant criminal case, there are probably 5 working radar units.

It is not only a reasonable reaction for people to outcry against a bad trooper, it is a civic duty. One of those "we the people" in the face of government abuse - and age old struggle of us peasants.

Mark

m21sniper

"People forget about the number of times some of these guys seem a motorcyclist thats nothing but a tangled mess of bone, sinew and offal because of a person that thought they were 'only going a little over the speed limit'..thought they 'could make the ramp'..whatever."

That's completely irrelevant IMO.

"For all the folks that have no use for cops & troopers, well next time you get robbed/mugged/bombed/flooded, deal with it your own self, hm-K?"

I do that anyway. The police have no responsibility to protect individuals(ask SCOTUS), and they're largely incompetent anyway.

And the NO floods just illustrate the FACT that you're MUUUUUCH better off relying on yourself than the gummint.

What getting 'bombed' has to do with traffic tickets, i have no idea...