911Dave

No redesigns of the 928? 928->928S->928 S4->928 GTS. The 928 evolved significantly faster between 78 and 89 than the 911 did. In fact, the SC was unchanged for 6 years straight (78-83), the Carrera for another 6 years straight (84-89) except for the transmission change in 87. Absolutely no bodywork changes in the entire 12 years for the 911. Huge difference between a 78 928 and a 95 GTS.

Not that I'm disagreeing with anyone's assessment of the beauty of the 928. I think it's the coolest car on the planet. Girlfriend says "it's really sexy looking".

worf928

In reference to my post about the Dino? Yup. More-or-less. Less Chrome that is.

worf928

I figured that might be controversial. Luckily, the debate is unnecessary.

I'll stipulate to that with the modification of 78 through 87 as the iterations from 87 through 91 inclusive were minor. And the transition to the GTS in 92 is similar to the C4->C4S (bigger butt, etc.) (BTW, I think the 993 C4S has one seriously sexy a$$.)

But, wouldn't you admit that the 911 has evolved at a break-neck pace since 88? From 911 to 997 (four inarguably major re-designs) in 17 years?

From that perspective, if for some reason, the 911 line had ended prior to the 993 then my opinion in the post to which you replied would apply also to the 964 and in particular Cobalt's 3.6 Turbo. With nothing 'newer' to compare against the 3.6 Turbo would look show room new-car fresh today (under the arguable (not by me) assumption that it does not in fact still look fresh today despite it's present-day decedents.)

All debate about the number and magnitude of redesigns aside (which is fun but unnecessary), the fact that there is no 2005 928 means that there is no means to compare an '87 or '95 928 against The Standard De Jour. There is no frame of reference. We are forced out of the normal comparative mechanism of this year's model versus last year's. There is no time reference.

DoubleNutz

I love the 904/6/7's those are beautiful Porsches also.

cobalt

It is very interesting hearing this argument from this perspective vs the 911 crowd. My perspective of living with and owning 911's and 928's over the past 25 years may be somewhat biased. However, I feel the changes started in 1995. The 964 although 85% different structurally than the previous 911 was nothing more than a revamp of the old design. Porsche needed to bring things up to speed so to say with DOT regulations. The car is stiffer and better all around but not different in form and design. They finally got rid of the hideous bumpers they added on in 74 to meet crash standards and although everyone here calls it dated I as most everyone I speak to call it classic.

Although the 993 is a great car, it began the change that sent Porsche in the direction it has lead us to today. The 996 IMO was the termination of the old school (water cooled) 911. To me these cars are not at all the same animal as the previous cars. Slam me if you want but they are not. They are neither 911 nor 928 but incorporate aspects of both in a rear engine form. To me personally, the 94 turbo or 964 RS were 2 of the best 911's ever made. They truly optimized what Ferry envisioned in his creation. The bulbous flares and add on wings were used to compensate for a somewhat flawed design. However, these compensations/exaggerations brought these cars to a level that are still tough to beat today. If you look at the specs the stock 94 turbo, rated at 360 hp, it is equally as fast as a stock 993TT and the 996TT to 100 mph and up witch have considerably more hp. Modify a 3.6 Turbo with minor updates and you easily can reach 430-450 hp. My car is running 430 hp, because I run cats. It produces some 450+ ft pounds of torque. That says a lot for old school dated design. My turbo has bested modern cars like the C5 Z06 and Dodge Viper without having to try to hard.

If it was not for the 911, Porsche would never had the racing history development and engineering skills to design the magnificent 928.

Having the privilege of owning both I hear both sides to the coin. I have young kids wondering if the 928 is a new model and I have younger mid 20's guys saying they feel it looks so 80's. I have also heard many comments about how a Porsche is not a Porsche without the cool 996 headlights. To me personally I can't stand them.

IMO 1994 was the end of the old school Porsche that I grew to respect so much. Build quality dropped in 1995, design was no longer a part of function but a compromise to meet newer requirements and please the customer. Ironically, the 928 was killed off because it was too much of a luxury GT and not enough of a sports car, yet the newer 996 and 997's are a combination of the 2 cars. IMO they have taken the GT out of the 928 and tried to force fit it into the 996. In the end, they have taken the sport out of the sports car, leaving us with a somewhat confused model.

I think Porsche made a big mistake by killing off the 928. In the end, they have spent the past 10 or so years trying to recreate it by the metamorphosis of the 911 into more of a GT and less of a sports car. I feel Porsche has acknowledged this by introducing the Caymen S. Leaving us with the 997 the new luxury sport GT and the Caymen S the new Porsche sports car.

From my perspective these are 2 classics that made Porsche the great Marque it is. Without either the 911 or the 928 so many bench mark standards would never have been met. To think that just 10 short years ago These 2 cars were the best of the best and everything today is still attempting to better them, says so much. So there will always be differences in opinion but inarguably these are 2 classics one serving the sports car world the other the GT.

I think that my appreciation of both of these cars comes more from behind the wheel of each. Although staring at them does the job almost as well.

BTW I agree the Dino is dated but it is a true work of art and a classic beauty. The bumpers are a bit much but better than what Ferrari came up with for many of the later models. The sound of the Dino engine is tremendous and you can’t say that if you saw it driving down the road your head would not turn.

Sorry, didn’t realize how wordy I had gotten.

Ron_H

Cobalt stated: "I have also
heard many comments about how a Porsche is not a Porsche without the
cool 996 headlights. To me personally I can't stand them. "

Neither can I, and apparently neither can enough other people that Porsche has abandoned those eyesores in favor of the 997 design. At the recent Porsche Parade, when Peter Porsche asked the crowd's opinion of the new 997 headlights the place erupted in applause. Finally, the trendy ovality of the 996 dashboard and the awful headlights of the 996 have been abandoned.

worf928

I would like to make it clear that it was not my intention to start a debate centered around comparative analysis of the 928 and 911.

I was simply trying to express an opinion that the 928 receives assistance in being considered a timeless design due to having been discontinued.


Lemme guess: these comments from people who have yet to realize that there were Porsche's built before the 996? (Noobs, gotta luv 'em... )

DoubleNutz

Dude you have a mild one on your hands in this thread. I am duking it out in the off topic forum with the publisher of a new 911 magazine that happens to also be a RENNLIST SPONSOR, (I refuse to say the magazines name so as not to offer any free advertising) and has recently hit magazine racks and refers to Porsches other than the 911 as- "LESSER PORSCHE'S".

Although he claims this was just a "tounge in cheek" comment that is peppered thoughout his magazine he REFUSES to apologize for the comment.

worf928

Well, like, DUH.

It's risk management man. Jus' trying to nip in the bud any little weeds that might be thinking about growing.

DoubleNutz

yea man I hear ya. However my weed is a BIG F*CKER and a list sponsor. Dude how deplorable is that???!!!


BTW, love the driver, hope ya don'y mind I stole him for my signature too.

Ron_H

You know Double Nutz, I have a long time friend who just happened to be a Porsche dealer. He could always drive whatever Porsche he wanted to drive, and for as long as I had known him he drove a 911S or a 911 Turbo. Then one day I called him and asked him what he was driving. He said he had a 928 as his personal car. I laughed and said: "That's not a real Porsche". He laughed back and said to go drive one and then try to repeat such a statement. I did. I couldn't. I had to eat my words. I now drive a 928. If your publisher "friend" thinks the 928 is a lesser Porsche, I defy him to spend two hours in it on Highway 1 from Portland to any point South or on Hwy 1 from Carmel to Big Sur. I also defy him to ride with me for awhile on I-5 through the California-Oregon border. Then let's hear what he has to say.

I also like the 944, comparing it to the fun of driving some of the early Porsches like the 356s. Big grin all the while. And how about some of the race cars like the Carrera 6? Is that a lesser Porsche also? How about the 908 which will run away and hide from other cars in its class even today.

I side with you. I love 911s, but that is waning the longer I own and enjoy my 928. My car is almost 20 years old and look at the top speed compared to 911s of today; and it will reach it right this minute with 160k miles on it. And for fun, try to beat a 914/6 on the track even today. All different models and different objectives but still Porsches. Different strokes for different folks. What or who appointed him judge of my taste?

worf928

Uhh uhh. Not going there. I just saw the thread on OT. I might read it. I might respond. Maybe. Maybe not. I've got my OT scars from the Choose your favorite Porsche poll from last year.

I'd be one thief complaining about another if I minded.

DoubleNutz

I just FARTED ... ummmm I mean VOTED!

I suspect thats going to open a yearold can of worms!

worf928

Bastard

DoubleNutz

LOL would you rather that I "FARTED" instead?