Valvoline Full Synthetic 20w-50 no longer available?
05-27-2005, 04:21 AM
#1
Burning Brakes
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Valvoline Full Synthetic 20w-50 no longer available?
I've been using this product in both of my cars, with no complaints. I cannot vouch for it's effectiveness, but I recall that it was one of the two oils named by DEVEK that was less likely to induce detonation if/when ingested during high RPM runs.
Bottom line, I change oil annually. After about 7000 miles, the Valvoline still looks like yummy maple syrup on the dipstick. I am not gentle with my car after it warms up.
So, is this stuff still around? Is there an alternative? I work at AutoZone, and we stock Delvac 15w-40 Dino Juice as well as M1 in all it's various forms. I suspect a high viscosity multi-grade would suit me best here in Tucson, AZ. Temperatures stay above 80 most of the time and well into the 100s some of the time.
I've read the posts from Doug Hillary, which were very informative. However, there was no discussion of the Valvoline product. Since his favorite is not available, what is the best alternative?
Bottom line, I change oil annually. After about 7000 miles, the Valvoline still looks like yummy maple syrup on the dipstick. I am not gentle with my car after it warms up.
So, is this stuff still around? Is there an alternative? I work at AutoZone, and we stock Delvac 15w-40 Dino Juice as well as M1 in all it's various forms. I suspect a high viscosity multi-grade would suit me best here in Tucson, AZ. Temperatures stay above 80 most of the time and well into the 100s some of the time.
I've read the posts from Doug Hillary, which were very informative. However, there was no discussion of the Valvoline product. Since his favorite is not available, what is the best alternative?
05-27-2005, 11:48 AM
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Three Wheelin'
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I use the Mobil1 15W50 (can't find 20W50 in anything) here in GA. We don't get as hot as you guys, but close. Like you, once it's warmed up I hit it hard and run it above 4K rpm constantly. No knocking w/ any grade gas (I've tried 87 to 93 octane) and still looks great when I change it at 15K in the Boxster and 7.5K in the 928.
05-27-2005, 12:54 PM
#3
I've been using this product in both of my cars, with no complaints. I cannot vouch for it's effectiveness, but I recall that it was one of the two oils named by DEVEK that was less likely to induce detonation if/when ingested during high RPM runs.
05-27-2005, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Jim Nowak
I'm now running Castrol Syntec and have had no issues.
05-27-2005, 04:02 PM
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Burning Brakes
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No, the other oil was Redline. However, at $9 a quart with a 10 quart refill, I opted for the Valvoline (go figure). I checked on Valvolines website last night and it looks like they still make it. Apparently NAPA and Pep Boys stock more Valvoline than AutoZone does, so I'll have to take a trip to the dark side and see.
Interestingly, they also have a 5w-40 Full synthetic Deisel called Super Blue (I think) that is spec for Cummins and Caterpillar turbo-deisels. If it's as good as Delvac 5w-40 and it's available at a local retailer, I may switch.
Interestingly, they also have a 5w-40 Full synthetic Deisel called Super Blue (I think) that is spec for Cummins and Caterpillar turbo-deisels. If it's as good as Delvac 5w-40 and it's available at a local retailer, I may switch.
05-27-2005, 06:41 PM
#6
Man of many SIGs
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Pardon my ignorance but 7000+ miles between oil changes seems like alot. Is this extended interval because of the oil being synthetic and of a higher quality or because of the price of synthetics? I have had really great success with Schaeffer oils. I use their oils in my equipment at work and we have done tests. They use Moly as an additive in their synthetic oils and it seems to make a huge difference. We have seen almost 20 degrees difference in gearbox temps with their moly/ synthetic gear oil. I would be using it in my transaxle right now but it is a heavier weight than what is recomended. I may end up ordering some of the lighter stuff when I change my trany oil.
Just thought you might like an alternative. http://www.cincy-racing.com/schaeffer/aboutus.htm
Just thought you might like an alternative. http://www.cincy-racing.com/schaeffer/aboutus.htm
05-27-2005, 07:08 PM
#7
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Originally Posted by Fabio421
Pardon my ignorance but 7000+ miles between oil changes seems like alot. Is this extended interval because of the oil being synthetic and of a higher quality or because of the price of synthetics? I have had really great success with Schaeffer oils. I use their oils in my equipment at work and we have done tests. They use Moly as an additive in their synthetic oils and it seems to make a huge difference. We have seen almost 20 degrees difference in gearbox temps with their moly/ synthetic gear oil. I would be using it in my transaxle right now but it is a heavier weight than what is recomended. I may end up ordering some of the lighter stuff when I change my trany oil.
Just thought you might like an alternative. http://www.cincy-racing.com/schaeffer/aboutus.htm
Just thought you might like an alternative. http://www.cincy-racing.com/schaeffer/aboutus.htm
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05-28-2005, 04:43 AM
#8
Burning Brakes
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Nothing odd at all. I change my oil in the specified interval (annually). I can do this because people smarter than me have said it is acceptable. More than this, one of those people has done extensive testing (Doug Hillary) and has shown that there is little if any benefit to overly frequent oil cahnges.
The general concensus (and I am inclined to agree) is that quarterly oil changes may have been required when the products available were little better than strained dino-juice; high quality oils of both variety have made that a thing of the past. Unless you own stock in Mobil, all you're doing is pouring $$ down the drain.
Bear in mind that the specifications were written 20 years ago before the civilian use of synthetic lubricants optimized for the conditions we subject our cars to. Put another way, at $5 a quart, this stuff better be all it says it is, because it sure as heck can't make a cup of coffee!
The general concensus (and I am inclined to agree) is that quarterly oil changes may have been required when the products available were little better than strained dino-juice; high quality oils of both variety have made that a thing of the past. Unless you own stock in Mobil, all you're doing is pouring $$ down the drain.
Bear in mind that the specifications were written 20 years ago before the civilian use of synthetic lubricants optimized for the conditions we subject our cars to. Put another way, at $5 a quart, this stuff better be all it says it is, because it sure as heck can't make a cup of coffee!
05-28-2005, 03:48 PM
#9
The 12K interval was written when these cars were new. If you have worn rings and are seeing more blowby or if your 928 has a lot of cold starts and short trips the 12K interval doesn't really apply. As the saying goes YMMV.
Dennis
Dennis
05-28-2005, 04:25 PM
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Burning Brakes
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Granted...without empirical evidence to support my claims, the world may never know. However, since the oil appears as barely used even after a year and use was consistently minimal starts with plenty of mileage in between, I think I'm safe.
As I recall, there was arecommendation to change the filter semi-annually wasn't there?
As I recall, there was arecommendation to change the filter semi-annually wasn't there?
05-28-2005, 05:13 PM
#11
Tim,
Some will dispute it, but I believe color is a good indicator of impurities or breakdown of the oil. If it is still translucent and there is no drop in the level, it is probably still good to the recommended interval. If running the expensive oil, there are test kits available which can be used to gauge how long it will last. On my turbo (only oil cooled) I change the oil every three months with semi synthetic. I consider this cheap insurance when compared to a turbo rebuild. Now if I could just stop the leak.
Dennis
Some will dispute it, but I believe color is a good indicator of impurities or breakdown of the oil. If it is still translucent and there is no drop in the level, it is probably still good to the recommended interval. If running the expensive oil, there are test kits available which can be used to gauge how long it will last. On my turbo (only oil cooled) I change the oil every three months with semi synthetic. I consider this cheap insurance when compared to a turbo rebuild. Now if I could just stop the leak.
Dennis
05-28-2005, 11:41 PM
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Shell (Rotella T) and Chevron (Delo 400) also make synthetic 5W40 diesel oils. After puttering around on Mobil's website for a while I gathered that 15W40 is standard dino oil for diesels, and 5W40 synthetic does the same thing but by synthetic's nature has better cold flow characteristics.
BTW, Wallyworld carries both of those in gallon jugs for $13-ish. Unfortunately, they don't carry Delvac 1.
BTW, Wallyworld carries both of those in gallon jugs for $13-ish. Unfortunately, they don't carry Delvac 1.
05-28-2005, 11:58 PM
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Hi,
Tim - Valvoline do make a Porsche Approved 5w-40 synthetic oil (available here in OZ at least)
Commercial mineral 15w-40 "mixed fleet" HDEOs like Delvac MX or 1300 Super will perform well in a 928. They are robust and very durable. Shell and Halvoline (Delo) are good equivalents but all must be endorsed "mixed fleet" and have dual API ratings such as "CI-4/SL". If the oil does not have an "S" rating it is unsuitable for use in a petrol engine
I believe that the CAT 5w-40 is actually a rebadged Delavc 1 5w-40.
Mobil market Delvac 1 5w-40 as M1 T&SUV 5w-40 in the US - it is almost identical and a great product going by user reports
Oils used in 928s should have as a minimum a High Temperature High Shear viscosity of 3.7 to 4.2cSt as a minimum - see the oil's Specification sheet
If the oil is not Porsche Approved, ACEA A3/B3 rated or a quality mixed fleet HDEO of the correct viscosity don't use it!
Fabio - modern oils when used in a normally operated 928 will easily last for the original Porsche recommended oil change interval of one year or 12k. They have a safety margin beyond 75% that if it is a API quality SL or ACEA A3/B3 synthetic oil
An OEM oil filter such as MANN or Mahle will easily last the one year or 12k too
As a matter of interest some on-going research is showing that more frequent oil changes (than the Manufacturer recommends) may actually increase wear rates. This has to do with the cleansing/replating of detergent/anti-wear chemical additives in the oil. I believe in the validity of this arguement
Dennis - generally, oil colour is NOT a good indication of the oil's condition. All oils should darken if they are doing their job of holding carboneous and other matter is suspension. This is their task
A good indication of the oil's contaminant level is a simple blotter test. Using a think blotter and a drop of warm oil off the dipstick the oil's spread is monitored and the colour boundaries noted
Dennis, please contact me privately should you want more information on this very old (50-60 years) test
Matt - Shell and Delo 5w-40 HDEOs are both Group 3 "hydrocracked" synthetics, Delvac 1 5w-40 is a Group 5 oil having a 26% Ester content.
All are great Commercial products
Regards
Doug
Tim - Valvoline do make a Porsche Approved 5w-40 synthetic oil (available here in OZ at least)
Commercial mineral 15w-40 "mixed fleet" HDEOs like Delvac MX or 1300 Super will perform well in a 928. They are robust and very durable. Shell and Halvoline (Delo) are good equivalents but all must be endorsed "mixed fleet" and have dual API ratings such as "CI-4/SL". If the oil does not have an "S" rating it is unsuitable for use in a petrol engine
I believe that the CAT 5w-40 is actually a rebadged Delavc 1 5w-40.
Mobil market Delvac 1 5w-40 as M1 T&SUV 5w-40 in the US - it is almost identical and a great product going by user reports
Oils used in 928s should have as a minimum a High Temperature High Shear viscosity of 3.7 to 4.2cSt as a minimum - see the oil's Specification sheet
If the oil is not Porsche Approved, ACEA A3/B3 rated or a quality mixed fleet HDEO of the correct viscosity don't use it!
Fabio - modern oils when used in a normally operated 928 will easily last for the original Porsche recommended oil change interval of one year or 12k. They have a safety margin beyond 75% that if it is a API quality SL or ACEA A3/B3 synthetic oil
An OEM oil filter such as MANN or Mahle will easily last the one year or 12k too
As a matter of interest some on-going research is showing that more frequent oil changes (than the Manufacturer recommends) may actually increase wear rates. This has to do with the cleansing/replating of detergent/anti-wear chemical additives in the oil. I believe in the validity of this arguement
Dennis - generally, oil colour is NOT a good indication of the oil's condition. All oils should darken if they are doing their job of holding carboneous and other matter is suspension. This is their task
A good indication of the oil's contaminant level is a simple blotter test. Using a think blotter and a drop of warm oil off the dipstick the oil's spread is monitored and the colour boundaries noted
Dennis, please contact me privately should you want more information on this very old (50-60 years) test
Matt - Shell and Delo 5w-40 HDEOs are both Group 3 "hydrocracked" synthetics, Delvac 1 5w-40 is a Group 5 oil having a 26% Ester content.
All are great Commercial products
Regards
Doug
05-29-2005, 04:04 AM
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Doug, I was hoping you would chime in on this. Thank you for the explanation of Delo and Rotella T. From the limited knowledge I have of diesel oil, Shell Rotella T is a very respected brand name (marine and local ag-truck use). Actually, I've heard Shell Rotella T recommended more than Mobil for diesels. As I read Mobil's website, they do not have a high opinion of "hydrocracked" oils. Is that ego, or a valid opinion?