Ron -

Now you've got me curious. If you were "King for a Day," what would you do with speed limits? None at all? Or only in certain places? For certain people or cars? Or just higher ones?

 

Bigs, I just got back from a stroll in the park (gots ta stay fit ya know...) and I beat myself up over this issue .....and I have court on Tuesday. I must work tonight. Let me think about it. I can answer you now but I need to work. Uncle is relentless and I played too much lately. As Ahnald said, Ill be back.

 

Just to butt in ,( oops, 'cuse me ), Here's a little grist for the mill OK, perhaps too much ... but Ron, it does look as if you've been appointed to lead this social crusade

The evolution of traffic laws in the US could be argued to be tracking the needs of a litigation crazed populace wherein the majority of individuals accept nether risk nor responsibility for their actions behind the wheel. The risk incurred by driving in opposing directions to fellow citizens even less skilled is assumed to not exist - as the culture both believes and expects a risk free environment. Any fracture in this mythical utopian cocoon is rapidly dealt with in the good old/new fashioned way - "I'll sue your a$$ off buddy" = litigation. The growing legislative response to this has been a progressive tightening of many social norms, notably traffic laws in this discussion. It has become a difficult spiral - for legislators and regulators, how does one protect those that accept neither risk nor responsibility?
Having driven in several European countries, it is easy to conclude that in many cases , individual driver skills and inter driver communication ( signals/light flashes, etc) are clearly at a different, if not higher level. I always felt secure driving at considerably higher speeds in those environments . This enhanced level of driver awareness is also reflected in the attention paid to ownership and maintenance issues: perhaps not in every country, but when living in France there was a culture that directed you to attend to your brakes, timing belts, tires, .... and that is certainly true in Germany, etc.
It is somewhat different here - with the advent of leased, disposable, never change the oil type of vehicle. The growth of leasing was a perfect fit to the no responsibility (for maintenance/disposable) mindset. [ to illustrate, the great fiasco between Firestone and Ford with the Explorer SUV that had the regrettable consequence of tire failure and life loss on a significant scale had resulted in massive litigation - the real issue was ofter care free, 70-80 mph long distance highway running in warm climates - with far too little inflation pressure: and who checks?? Many lives would have been saved through simple attention to tire pressures. - it is never that simple, for Ford did spec too low a pressure to enhance ride comfort, for consumers want a truck that rides like a car ...].
Anyway, the point is perhaps that the social common denominator is being adequately served - to raise the standards, a culture need have a more elevated understanding of risk, responsibility, and skill. Similarly, a regulatory approach that uses excessive caution to mitigate potential litigation is misdirected - it leads to a society that crawles, no longer will running be tolerated. Changes in speed limits cannot begin to touch the attitudes that drive this spiral.

 

Not in the least, as far as I am concerned.........But you will find a wide spectrum of opinion here.....

Some of my best friends are cops, they are stand up guys doing their jobs and taking care of their families.....then there are the others......

I am a CEO, in some circles that makes me lower than a car salesman (or worse)...

There is a certain unique joy associated with blasting down the pavement at 125 in a well tuned shark......and there is a certain cost associated with getting caught doing it.......we all now that..............Some guys here fancy that they know how public policy should be applied, better than anyone else......That is ok too.....But it is an opinion.....and that doesn't make them any more correct....

Now, back to that unique joy of blasting down the pavement in a shark.......Ohhh Yeahhhh

 

If I may be so bold:

Trucks above large pickup rating and industrial vehicles:
10 or 20 under current limits everywhere.
Rightmost and next lane ONLY.
No carpooling
Must not leak oil

Sportscars and motorcycles with a govt rating of 140mph +:
Left lane ONLY for passing
Must use W or Z tyres
Must have annual safety inspection
Must not leak oil
Must pass smog
No speed limit on Interstate Freeways
Abide by speed limits everywhere else

Smallcars and other Passenger cars and motorcycles:
Left 2 lanes ONLY for passing
Interstate freeway limits 100mph
Abide by speed limits everywhere else
Must not leak oil

All Drivers:
Re-tested every 2 to 5 years. Failure => suspended licence

Police:
Left lane ONLY for passing and emergencies
NO CRAZY CHASES. Abide by the speed law.
State Patrol are traffic enforcement only.
Real Police are real police and do not concern themselves with traffic.

Local Government:
Stop focusing on revenue (in fact this needs to be outlawed).
Focus on TRAFFIC FLOW and SAFETY ONLY.

 

If I was an officer and I cut some guy slack, which what Serio got here, and then he tried to beat me, I would have no mercy on him.

I see these threads and I swear I won't bother, but then I know you can be victimized by some small town trap, whatever. And I'm glad to hear from the smokey side. So here I am and I skipped a couple pages of this.

Jserio, you are making us look bad.

 

Steve this is the second post where I've recently posted an opposing view to yours, please don't view it as aimed at you Dude, just my humble opinion, k? .... so ...

This is IMHO one of the problems with the system today. We all clearly know that it's subjective and up to the officer, depending on CIRCUMSTANCES - traffic; open road; schools; hazards; visibility; relative speeds etc. Unfortunately the officers I have encountered take that subjective responsibility and warp it. BE NICE TO ME AND I'LL LET YOU OFF. Wrong.

 

Re-read Steve's post and I had misread it. OK. Steve that's true, if you cut a guy slack and he bites you in the a$$, you're right - one might be a tad pi$$ed

 

Gretch,

Well said.

 

I wish there were always the case. I was pulled over by an officer who asked me for my insurance and license, said stay in the car, quickly walked to his car, came back in a minute or two with a citation for 78 in a 65 zone. I didn't believe I was going that fast as I was cruizing in traffic until I saw him come up one me fast, and I moved over to let him by. He, in an unmarked vehicle, and a couple of other patrol cars I saw later were running what must have been a zero tolerance sweep. All he said was he was citing me for speeding. I had to ask him how fast he thought I was going after he handed me the citation for signature. I said nothing and just tried to calm myself as I drove off to finish my daily commute. Kind of a pisser.

 

Bill the answer of course is: "not as fast as you, officer"

 

Damn, this dead horse has been beaten flatter than a road kill squirrel on I-95 in Atlanta during rush hour. Suffice it to say that there is probably about the same percentage of unrealistic (being polite here) cops as there are MD's and Lawyers or any other profession that you could name.... and, granted that it's no justification that the pay is low, hours are bad and... ya'll talk about risk.... and we don't even get malpractice insurance to gripe about.

In the meantime, I'll continue to drive my 928, thoroughly enjoying every minute, especially those where I can steal a few moments of high speed motoring, aware of the possible consequences. On the other hand, always being aware of my surroundings and watching for those distinctive Crown Vic's and Cameros probably makes me a safer driver.

 

Interesting observation, I've pondered this one often. My thought is that always looking in the rearview mirror, trying to discern if that's an unmarked croozer/suv back there tailing me, is distracting. Plus, switching front-to-back and side-of-road view constantly as opposed to monitoring vehicles and obstacles and possible pedestrians around me, distracts also. I used to drive with FULL attention on the other traffic. Today I give at least 50% of my attention, if not more, to the extremely aggressive taxation going on around me.

 

Here's one for you guys,

In Ost Friesland, a province in The Netherlands, they have done away with traffic signs on the roads. The result if SIGNIFICANTLY FEWER accidents Period, when compared to an area with similar population demographics that had the "full signage." It was on the BBC this morning on my way to the office...

Now, about the speeding kills garbage... Sppeding does NO kill. The untrained driver, driving a vehicle in an unsafe manner kills other people. I have had the fortune of driving in many environments, from the USA, unmanned/signed roads in South America, and on the Autobahn in Germany to name a few.. I felt safest on the Autobahn, where I travelled at the highest top speed, and also average speed.

Second safest was on the "uncharted roads" in South America... I feel unsafe on American roads compared to many places in the world.. People do not drive a 6,000lb vehicle while yelling at their kids, talking on their cell phone, and putting on makeup, while not having ANY CLUE about driving a vehicle other than steering somewhat in a lane, and strpping on the brakes should stop the vehicle.

Granted we on this forum are a bit better in some cases, Extremely better in some, and worse in some cases than the aforenmentioned driver of SUV in Surburbia.

Ron is right, the speed laws are to pay salaries and fund county projects

Heinrich's system seems like an upgraded TUV rating for highways in Germany..

Case in point...! If I drive 100mph, and am completely safe in travle relative to the conditions on the road, say at night, with proper lights on, and no visible traffic on the freeway, I will get a ticket, no bones about it...

If Suzy Q driving her 6,000 lb SUV mentioned above, obeys the 65mph limit, in rush hour commute in Silicon Valley, she will not get stopped. Her behaviour is significantly INCREASING the chance of accident, and her NEGLIGENCE is a direct contributor to the accident she will undoubtedly have... Yet, NO TICKET... (Feel free to substitute John Doe for Suzy Q at any time..)

The traffic laws in this country, and many others are BS, designed to make money for the enforcing parties, not protect anyone... PERIOD..

No amount of legitimizing these traffic laws will do any good to convince me otherwise.

As far as the 928 LEO's contributing to the thread, I can say that your vocal opinion and thinking is not the majority at all. I hope I run into guys like you when I get stopped next.. Until then, I will retain my good attorney and try to live with the situation and support a change in the law.

Education and awareness with mandatory continuous driver training are the only way to keep the roads safe, even if the laws were repealed... There is NO SPEED LIMIT IN THE SKY...!!!!!!!! But pilots have to go for refreshers, it is mandatory, ot they lose their license...!

If you do not believe me, ask any pilot, and see what they say..... And even then, they sometimes crash the darned plane..... not perfect, but should be applied to the road as well.. Along with safety on the vehicles..... (no leaks, rated tires, brakes, suspension etc..)

Maybe a bad thing, but we might all end up driving MBZ, BMW, & Porsche..............

Hmmmmmmmmmmm.................

 

Education and awareness with mandatory continuous driver training are the only way to keep the roads safe, even if the laws were repealed... There is NO SPEED LIMIT IN THE SKY...!!!!!!!! But pilots have to go for refreshers, it is mandatory, ot they lose their license...!

If you do not believe me, ask any pilot, and see what they say.....

Actually, there are many speed limits in the sky. The following figures are for US airspace only, however, many other countries/regions (Europe) have similiar restrictions:

Max speed below 10000 ft = 250 kts
(often waived for military fighters up to 300 kts )
Unless in a valid Military Training Route, then = .99 Mach

Max speed in/below class B airspace = 200-250 kts
(+- 30 miles ish around large airports [Boston/Atlanta/etc...])

Max speed (over land) above 10000 ft below 50000 feet = .99 Mach

Max speed above 50000 feet = none

However, the differences between piloting a vehicle (F-15 vs. 928) in the sky and the on the ground are many:

- You have an extra dimension to 'dodge' traffic - up/down!
- The closure rates are incredibly different. If you estimate that with standard visual acuity you can see a small plane or a car at about 2 miles, then we can compute the following:

-- Min reaction time car to car, assuming both cars traveling @ 65 mph: 56 seconds to recognize and avoid oncoming car.

-- Min reaction time F-15 to bugsmasher, assuming F-15 traveling in an MTR @ 550 kts and afore mentioned bugsmasher non paying attention to MTR (ya, that never happens) traveling @ 140 kts: 9 seconds to recognize and avoid oncoming aircraft (with a lot more 'road' to scan).

(for those of you checking my math, 1 knot = 1.16 mph)

Bottom line is: I wish 928s had a radar like the F-15!

Cheers,
Mongoose
928 - still searching