Yes, I know, I promised to quit beating that dead horse, but I have to tell you Kaz is 100% correct. Most officers will agree that we don't write the ticket, the person we stop does. Most of the time if we feel that we've done our job without a citation, then that's the best way to go. Again, Kaz, you hit the nail on the head. Of course YOMV (Your Officer May Vary)

 

Ron -

Of course, you're right. My statement was meant in the sense that I, as an individual, am not likely to change a law simply by grumbling about it.

Now, if I, as an individual, strongly feel that any given law is truly wrong-headed, then I am free to speak publicly against it, run for office myself, use my time and resources to support and campaign for those of my same viewpoint, and marshall all the support I can for the purpose of changing that law. Even then, the individual may be the initial catalyst, but is unlikely to carry the day without widespread support from others.

It just didn't feel to me like Joe was heading toward quite that much commitment.

 

Plus, and I say this with utmost sadness, everywhere I look in life, all laws - not just traffic laws - are constructed to cater to the lowest common denominator of humanity.

 

Bill I certainly don't advocate going as fast as you want whenever you want and the rest of the world be damned. I also don't advocate staying home in your crib because the world is hazardous and depending on your mother to nurse you to new heights of ecstasy all of your life. S**t happens. Porsches are designed to allow a better chance of survival in all the muck.

Evolution will continue despite the efforts of all the do-gooders and prophets of doom who would have us all remain in the womb all of our lives and in the 10th and 11th century. Even the space shuttle with all the safeguards in place that our (arguably) best minds can conceive exploded in mid fight and killed all aboard; but those flights will continue. I think the evil is in the attempt to de-evolve (Normy's term) humans by overprotecting us that is evident in England where the citizens no longer have the right.....(get this).... to protect their homes and families and belongings. Criminals can simply walk in and take whatever they want and citizens can no longer resist for fear of hurting the wrongdoer; they must summone the police. Sheesh !!! Give me a break.
S**t will always happen. We will fall down and skin our knees and break some bones and some will suffer but evolution will go on regardless. One thing is for sure: if no one is allowed to fend for themselves no one will eventually know how to do so. Just a pathetic buch of wimps wining about the rain and wind in their faces unable to cope with any situation in the world crying in their cribs. And their are those in authority who can't wait for that to happen. It's Orwellian.

I am reminded of the BMW ad years ago that depicted a woman alone on a mountain road in the rain at night and a branch or hazard apeared in front of the car and she simply drove around it. It was overly dramatic but it emphasized the handling superiority of BMW to the amazement of American viewers who were not accustomed to presuming such a simple act. Of course not, because all of our cars were such garbage and ill suited to their function because they didn't need to perform even marginally. BMW sold lots of cars and American cars are better as a result of competition from marques originating where performance is expected for survival everyday. Our cars are better equipped now because they must compete but our attitudes about safety are still in the Middle Ages. We believe the garbage about overprotection we are fed by those who would keep us dependent. READ THIS TWICE: as the speed increases the accident rate and fatality rate decreases. Now spend the rest of the day deciding why that is true.

Heinrich, nice hearing from you again.

 

Ron!

How refreshing to hear from someone who recognizes that RISK will always be an integral part of life!

I thought that had become archaic thinking!

 

It never ceases to amaze me how much level headedness there is in this forum. I do recognize the fact that I would LOVE to enter the travel lanes on the interstate each and every time at 100+, letting my 928 stretch its legs and run as it was really designed and intended to. But, save very few, the driving public in general has a problem with that, so I too am limited to short bursts of the kick down afterburners when traffic allows. Believe me, I do feel your pain. WER hit the nail DIRECTLY on the head. I NEVER have a preconceived notion of whether or not I am going to write a ticket once I stop someone. I am a field level supervisor as well and not only do I have to deal with the public, but also with "Hot Rod" Troopers that could **** off the Pope. I am the first person that someone speaks to when they have a complaint on an officer. That makes for some very interesting phone calls and visits to our Patrol Post. Should anyone ever have a question that they think I might be able to offer some insight into, feel free to PM me or to email me directly and I'll see what I can do for you. Back to the first sentence in this post though, don't let your level headedness spread too much because remember, an abundance of idiots and their subsequent behavior modification is what puts food on my table! Take care everyone! ( and thanks for not ostracizing me!)

 

Ron,

Point-
"There is more to life than increasing it's speed."
-Gandhi






Counterpoint-
"Obviously Gandhi never had the opportunity to drive a Porsche..."
-Stevo'99

 

Jim H. :

Nor did Gandhi have the opportunity to use my latest and fastest computer. I remember when we had ......no television. Evolution shall continue.

Bigs:

Consider for a moment that you as an individual may not be alone. Think about it for a few minutes. (hint: this is Sunday)


To all:

There is one more(generalized) point in my rant: Prohibition never works except for the prohibitor. For the prohibitor, it works well indeed. Prohibition works quite well to create criminals. The prison guard's union is one of the most powerful lobbies in the state of California, to the point of being feared. I once met a committed individual whose job it was to track down and prosecute murderers in San Francisco. This fellow told me he didn't get all of them. And he was relentless, but he had cases on which he was still working years later and never expected to solve....ever. Point is: murders will not cease because some legislature passed laws against them and punishment is death. I don't need to go on and on about examples like alcohol, wacky tabaccy, prostitution, etc ad nauseum. What works is instruction in morality and responsibility. And truth, not fabricated "facts" and emotional simplification and B.S. But crime pays. It certainly pays the prohibitors, and the enforcers of the prohibition, and the admisistrators of the prohibition. It pays damn well, in fact. And it prays on the implied threat of guilt to be suffered by an individual fearful of being isolated from/by the tribe.

But we live in the United States of America, if no one knew that. And we claim to believe in the basic and intrinsic goodness of the individual. The presumption of innocence is paramount. The belief that good will prevail and evil will be thwarted naturally. Go to Florence and view the statue of David in the Piazza della Signoria and think about what Kostoff calls "the basic dignity of mankind" as one intentional attempt of the Rennaissance.

Naive, you say? I agree that some people respond only to force....period. Not money, not sex, not food, not reason, not love......just violent force. And they will roam around, and of them we must beware. That will keep us on our toes then, rather than as slobs wasting away behind some barrier afraid of ourselves and our nature. We pray that somehow those people will get out of the left lane, but they don't. Prohibition may or may not help to rid us of them. But we must still put up with them despite prohibition's feeble and misguided attempts to rid us of them. We must be stronger and drive Porsches in self defense, and take DE courses and learn vehicular dynamics, not rely on prohibition.

All the laws against and prosecution of "speeding" have not diminished or altered the behavior, and the truth is it all pays quite well indeed .... for the prohibitor. Why do you slow when you see a bear, but resume speed when he is not in view?? Because you know that someday you may be stranded on the side of the road and may need him so you tolerate and rationalize his/her intrusion once in awhile, though it is likely not about to hinder your ultimate behavior patterns. Honesty time. There is no such thing as speeding, just relative speed.

Whew! I'm tired and going back to work so my uncle can continue to intrude upon my life.

 

Ron, I'm just a simple guy, so let me try to understand what you are saying, I'd hate to get it wrong. It seems that you are coming from the thought that laws created by a governmental institution are useless; that, directed by a morality inculcated by some homegrown authority (the family, the church?), we should only be regulated by what we, as individuals, feel is right. Am I close?

Because if that is the case, I'll quietly remind you that, like it or not, we are a country based on law. And each of those laws were written, debated and enacted by folks elected by the citizens of the country. I remember once, griping to a good friend, who was a defence attorney, after a judge had given a ridiculously short sentence to a guy I'd arrested for shooting someone, right after hammering someone for embezzlement. He told me "Bill, the community gets the sort of law it wants, by electing judges, prosecutors, etc., if they wanted it any different there would be a different set of folks in office".

So, if you don't like the way the laws are enforced, change it. Start at the bottom in your community, begin a movement to elect prosecutors (who have the final say as to what is brought to court) who won't prosecute speeding tickets, have your city council hire a police chief who will ensure that his officers don't cite for traffic violations. Will it work? Sure it will, just look at all the states that have moved simple marijuana possession down to a non-criminal level, you just have to work on it and be able to draw others into your fold.

 

Ron,

I hope you read my counterpoint...


WER,

Exactly,

So, if you don't like the way the laws are enforced, change it.

 

i can't wait to get my shark back on the road... forgot about all the fun stuff I've been missing while bumbling down the slow lane in my old truck... joe - you missed a meal? now that's the bummer!!! I'd just do a not guilty, see if he shows up... you might get lucky... if he does show, see if you can plead it down, or take traffic school, but don't get too bent if you can't get it dropped, seems like you did get a break of sorts already...traffic school w/a beer and popcorn on the video, now that so fun it should be illegal...ha!

gotta admit, the older I get the less tickets I get even if pulled over... must be the khar-ma thing...

 

To anybody who believes the average cop is a better driver than the average citizen and should be allowed to speed...
http://www.stupidvideos.com/Default.asp?VideoID=907

 

Seen that before. And that is no average citizen

 

Jim, I did read your counterpoint and answered it

Wer:

Of course I don't think we should advocate anarchy. I made the statement that prohibition doesn't work except for the prohibitors. I did not state that we need not regualte, did I?

Yes we claim to be a nation of laws to repeat a trite expression of non-responsibility for using our brains in this time and place. We claim the law is above our ability to think and reason and apply facts that have come to light long after persons in another age have died after making laws based on their mistaken conception of how society would always work. Of course we can change the laws. Isn't this an example of the discourse that should precede such impetus for change? The laws of prohibition, it they perpetuate the crimes prohibited and do nothing to eliminate them should definitely be re-evaluated for effectiveness. What else am I saying? No one is benefiting more in this case than the institutions that profit from the prohibition: the judges, the bears, the ambulance personnel, the body shops, the court personnel, the insurance companies, the medical professionals, ad infinitum. Submission to the prohibitionary cycles perpetuates the law. An annoyance you say. Just submit. We are such nasty criminal types for breaking a law that is unjustly administered and illegally instituted. Sure, why not. Who are we to go on suffering as a result? The intent of the legislature was to effect sound and scientifically applied and administered regulation. That is not the same as vested interests abusing their authority without question. Ask the people of Communist China about the emporer's laws and they will tell you that when oppression becomes unbearable the people WILL rise up and take the power away from the abusers. That is a historical fact. And it should be that way. You are not above the law? Are you above thinking? Laws are struck down every day legally that were passed by legislatures who were acting inaccurately and emotionally to create stupid laws. If you like the law AND IT IS ADMINISTERED LEGALLY, you can sign off of here and go ahead and pretend to obey it. It is NOT administered legally or with sound reasoning and should be changed or corrected or eliminated. Prohibiting a behavior creates criminals out of otherwise non-criminal citizens. Of course we prohibit murder, but murder doesn't cease. And unreasonable speed limits are not achieving their stated objective: the activity is certainly not ceasing, or lessening. In fact the reverse is true and the accident rates are increased. Because it is an "annoyance" doesn't give grounds for condoning it. As a matter of fact we are seeking to legally change the way the laws are adminstered right now and resisting is one form of doing so. Would you debate the achievements of the movements in history that resorted to resistance? Better move to England then, and pronto.

You won't need to look very far to find support among the sheeple for conformance without question to seemingly idiotic laws. 97% of people prefer not to question their citations. Probably that number is realistic when describing the number of people who plea bargain to other crimes though they didn't commit them or weren't necessarily at fault. The system is set up to create criminals, or it would not be justifiable. If there were no fires would we still pay firemen to sit in the firehouse waiting for one? I don't know, because there are still fires unfortunately. But deliberately setting fires so someone can put them out is another matter. Yes, "a nation of laws" indeed. A no brainer indeed. "I did not have sex with that woman". Give me a break. Baa! Baa! Baa! Baa! Jolly good shew, eh what?

 

Wer et.al., remember the 55 mph limit? Where is it now? I am working with the people who worked to abolish that LAW. It is gone. Thankfully. But thinking from that era is still around. Unfortunately.

Establishing rulings in courts that affect that thinking is a form of change, is it not? Is it not also a LEGAL and CIVILIZED form of change? Every mountain is nothing more than individual grains of sand. Get into the pile. The mountain will grow.