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32V Cam Timing Tool & 16V/32V Conv 'Group Buy' #2
02-04-2005, 03:06 PM
#46
Inventor
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Nice photochopping Curtis!
I thought seriously about a two piece design, but there would have to be two different fixed parts to use the bolt holes for the cover, or it would have to clamp to the housing.
Unless there is a problem with measurement, I don't plan on making any more changes.
...
Some more notes:
Cam timing is 1/2 of crank (or ignition) timing. So the measurement above for Jim_H's engine would be 2 and 4 degrees crank. I've heard both cam and crank degrees be used for describing cam timing.
I initially rejected doing a 'bolt-over' design, because I thought there would be play. The bolt head holes are very close tolerance, and, as it turns out, there is no real movement, once the bolts are tightened. Less than 1/4 degree, if any. Because of the larger diameter of the bolt head there was more movement with the bolt shaft version.
The tool is cut from 14ga (1.88mm) 304 SS. The arm is 12mm wide. I have put two small holes on the bolt ring, each hole lines up with two points the arm, so it is possible to check for twist. It is in fact quite difficult to bend, and the holes are more of a sanity check.
I thought seriously about a two piece design, but there would have to be two different fixed parts to use the bolt holes for the cover, or it would have to clamp to the housing.
Unless there is a problem with measurement, I don't plan on making any more changes.
...
Some more notes:
Cam timing is 1/2 of crank (or ignition) timing. So the measurement above for Jim_H's engine would be 2 and 4 degrees crank. I've heard both cam and crank degrees be used for describing cam timing.
I initially rejected doing a 'bolt-over' design, because I thought there would be play. The bolt head holes are very close tolerance, and, as it turns out, there is no real movement, once the bolts are tightened. Less than 1/4 degree, if any. Because of the larger diameter of the bolt head there was more movement with the bolt shaft version.
The tool is cut from 14ga (1.88mm) 304 SS. The arm is 12mm wide. I have put two small holes on the bolt ring, each hole lines up with two points the arm, so it is possible to check for twist. It is in fact quite difficult to bend, and the holes are more of a sanity check.
02-05-2005, 11:12 AM
#47
Three Wheelin'
I was just thinking of those like me who are a bit on the **** side that would want to rotate the engine between adjustments and didn't want to remove the tool.
Clamping the rear portion onto the rear cover would be ok as long as the tool would center on the "V", if you know what I mean.
Clamping the rear portion onto the rear cover would be ok as long as the tool would center on the "V", if you know what I mean.
02-05-2005, 02:27 PM
#48
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I've decided to add 'big washers' for the 32V setup, too. This makes the allen head bolts sit perfectly, so it's even easier to slide the 'pin-pointer' on and off, with almost zero play.
...
BTW, thanks Curtis, for the gears, makes a good demonstration prop; d'ya drop one?
...
BTW, thanks Curtis, for the gears, makes a good demonstration prop; d'ya drop one?
02-06-2005, 08:23 PM
#49
Addict
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Having torque values for each of the bolts involved in the cam timing operation would also be useful. Particularly for th the bolt that holds the cam gear to the cam. I'd hate break something. Anyone have this info?
Harvey
Harvey
02-06-2005, 08:56 PM
#50
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I need to make a new thread, this one is getting too long and confusing...
After measuring a number of times using the WSM method on a 90 GT (28.47) I can say that the pointer measures 2 cam degrees advanced for each side, if the cams are adjusted to spec.
In the post #44 above, the left cam turned out to be of spec by 1 cam degree. So to correct this, we would adjust the cam until the pointer read 2 cam degrees.
Still need to measure S, S4, and GTS.
After measuring a number of times using the WSM method on a 90 GT (28.47) I can say that the pointer measures 2 cam degrees advanced for each side, if the cams are adjusted to spec.
In the post #44 above, the left cam turned out to be of spec by 1 cam degree. So to correct this, we would adjust the cam until the pointer read 2 cam degrees.
Still need to measure S, S4, and GTS.
02-07-2005, 11:03 PM
#52
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I got the quote back from the shop for a new set. More expensive than I expected.
I have updated the 32V kit, at the same price, but reflecting the new parts and useage.
click pic for details
Because of the need to rotate the engine often when checking/adjusting, and the quick release design, I found that I only used one pointer.
I am going to make a run to use up the parts that I have. This means only (4) 32V kits are available.
I have emailed all who I sent the faulty pointer about an update.
I have updated the 32V kit, at the same price, but reflecting the new parts and useage.
click pic for details
Because of the need to rotate the engine often when checking/adjusting, and the quick release design, I found that I only used one pointer.
I am going to make a run to use up the parts that I have. This means only (4) 32V kits are available.
I have emailed all who I sent the faulty pointer about an update.
02-07-2005, 11:43 PM
#55
Inventor
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Thread Starter
The pointer indicates the center of the cam woodruff key, and plus or minus 6 degrees, when the engine is at #1 TDC.
The degree value lets you know where your zero is, so that you can adjust some advance or retard and back to stock without having to remove the cam covers and use a dial indicator (the WSM method). Note: 32V cams are ground with the right cam having some retard, to compensate for engine expansion (advances) when hot.
For example, advancing usually gives a boost to cars with automatic tranmissions, whereas retarding might be good for (turbo)supercharged cars, to lower dynamic compression, and possibly make for better breathing at high rpm.
For the first engine measured, a 28/47 (GTs), there was a 2 degree offset. For other years, there will probably be different values, and I or others will update the value for different years/cams. Or you would adjust your cams using the WSM method, then note the degree value with the pointer.
The kit includes:
(1) pointer (laser cut stainless steel)
(2) pointer needles
(1) cam bolt spacer
(6) allen head bolts (M5 x 16 stainless steel)
(2) big washers (laser cut stainless steel)
The cam bolt spacer allows adjusting of the cam using only the cam bolt.
The bolts and washers lock the cam gear to the gear hub while loosening the cam bolt for adjustment.
The degree value lets you know where your zero is, so that you can adjust some advance or retard and back to stock without having to remove the cam covers and use a dial indicator (the WSM method). Note: 32V cams are ground with the right cam having some retard, to compensate for engine expansion (advances) when hot.
For example, advancing usually gives a boost to cars with automatic tranmissions, whereas retarding might be good for (turbo)supercharged cars, to lower dynamic compression, and possibly make for better breathing at high rpm.
For the first engine measured, a 28/47 (GTs), there was a 2 degree offset. For other years, there will probably be different values, and I or others will update the value for different years/cams. Or you would adjust your cams using the WSM method, then note the degree value with the pointer.
The kit includes:
(1) pointer (laser cut stainless steel)
(2) pointer needles
(1) cam bolt spacer
(6) allen head bolts (M5 x 16 stainless steel)
(2) big washers (laser cut stainless steel)
The cam bolt spacer allows adjusting of the cam using only the cam bolt.
The bolts and washers lock the cam gear to the gear hub while loosening the cam bolt for adjustment.
02-08-2005, 12:05 AM
#56
Inventor
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Thread Starter
<sermon>
Most people's cams are probably off, if they haven't been checked. Each time you put on a new belt, each cam may be advanced or retarded by different amounts.
Just having the cams both properly indexed will increase power output, and smoothness.
Hopefully with this tool, a regular Joe can reference the degree value for the car's year from a table, and easily check when (re)tensioning the belt.
</sermon>
Most people's cams are probably off, if they haven't been checked. Each time you put on a new belt, each cam may be advanced or retarded by different amounts.
Just having the cams both properly indexed will increase power output, and smoothness.
Hopefully with this tool, a regular Joe can reference the degree value for the car's year from a table, and easily check when (re)tensioning the belt.
</sermon>
02-08-2005, 02:24 AM
#58
Rennlist Member
Ken, very cool. That's great that you can cut the manufacturing costs and deliver a better tool in the same swell foop. Are the 16Vs still going to come with a pair, or no? I keep watching the mail.... 
Are the 16Vs still going to come with a pair, or no? I keep watching the mail....
02-08-2005, 03:20 AM
#59
Inventor
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Thread Starter
Red,
I've sent the order to the laser shop, they should be ready to ship in a few days.
...
Dave, it ain't easy, bein' cheesy.
The 16V pointer bolts to the gear and can turn (by hand) around when the engine is rotated. And yes, there are still two pointers included. I'll be ordering new hubs this week for the 16V conversions.
Post 1600!
I've sent the order to the laser shop, they should be ready to ship in a few days.
...
Dave, it ain't easy, bein' cheesy.
The 16V pointer bolts to the gear and can turn (by hand) around when the engine is rotated. And yes, there are still two pointers included. I'll be ordering new hubs this week for the 16V conversions.
Post 1600!
