Harald944

Hello,
I have just purchased my second 928 GTS. Due to a timing belt failiure I am going to take out the engine to check what has to be done for repair.
I have searched though the archives but found not much on the procedure so I request any links to or information on the removal of the engine.
I have the workshop manual so I have the general idea but in some points the gts just seems different from the 87 they are using there.
Thank you for your help

Harald
Germany

Lagavulin

There is no need to pull the entire engine for a timing belt failure. 'Simply' pull the heads and replace the bent valves and valve guides where needed.

Harald944

Lagavulin,
I know, but it seems to be much easier with the engine removed and gives me the option to fix all other oil leaks.
The manual calls the procedure for an 87 modell, but the pictures on the pages 10-11 to 10-19 show something really different from mine (intake, belly pan, fan cooler). I don´t know what they screwed up.

One thing I noticed was that according to the german manual for the engine removal the crankshaft has to be turned so that the OT (Oberer Totpunkt=top dead center) pointers in the flywheel have to be at the bottom. The english translation makes OT to oil temperature, another mistake (and not corrected after ten years).

Harald

borland

One thing to consider is the crankshaft vibration dampner retaining bolt. It's typically removed with a flywheel lock. You'll need to remove this to replace the belt.

Harald944

borland, thank you very much, I already have removed the dampener as I was not patient enough to wait until the complete engine is out. So I took some parts off to see what happenend to the timing belt and to get the medium timing belt cover off I had to remove the dampener. About 600 NM to brake it loose, but no problem to remove it with a rubber hammer and WD40.
I am still waiting to get those heads off to be able to see how much damage the engine / the heads / the valves have.
May be I can pull the engine tomorrow...

Harald

Big Dave

Harold....glad to hear someone else is saving a 928 after a belt failure. Best of luck. I've almost got my engine out. It's just a matter of finding free time to work on the car.

heinrich

Harald, from experience, pulliung the engine isn';t easy. Why would you set TDC to bottom>?

Harald944

Hello Heinrich,
that is the reason I would like to get as much information before pulling the engine as I can.
I am not really bad when working on cars and I have a friend who is a very good chief mechanik for maserati. We can use his garage for the work, there is everything you can ask for (including the beer). But both of us have never done a 928....

Why I would set TDC to the bottom? Just because the workshop manual says so (page 10-14). The only reason I can see is the the pins do not touch the sensor on the top when the engine is removed. But as I said (or wrote) I do not really see the sense in all the points of the manual. I think some of the points are just wrong (what can be at least proved with the translation of OT to oil temperature) but for some other points I have to check on the car.

Or hoped for someone as Big Dave. His pictures are exactly as mine in every aspect, just my color of the car is dark blue. Unfortunately I am at nearly the same stage as he is so there are not to much hints as how to proceed.

Please wish me luck tomorrow

Harald

Harald

Big Dave

Harald:

I'm at the point where the only things left to do before pulling the engine:

1. Cut off last exhaust bolt
2. Remove motor mount bolts (4)
3. Drain steering lines
4. Disconnect and move appropriate wiring in fuse panel.

Unless the motor mount bolts are problematic, I'm thinking I'm only a couple hours (at most) from having the engine out and on a stand. Once that's accomplished, I'll pull the heads off and take pictures for everyone here to gasp at....real live bent valves!

Progress continues on my replacement heads....I received this wonderful picture recently....

Harald944

Hello,
we have removed the engine. It took about 5 hours, 2 people working. Not a difficult thing, just follow the manual. The TDC section does not apply to the GTS, same for some wires and vacuum lines as they just do not exist on this modell. Important was to move back the torque tube/transmission about 20 mm according to the manual to be able to divide engine from clutch housing. We tried to skip that initially, but it did not work.
As we made such good and fast progress, we also took off the complete intake, valve covers, the wheels?/gears? that are driven by the timing belt, exhaust and on one side the camshafts and the complete cylinder head. Took another 3 hours.
Initial findings:
- all 4 camshafts seem ok
- on the removed cylinder head 14 valves are clearly visible bent, the remaining 2 can be ok, needs to be checked
- the cylinders seem to be ok
- the pistons habe only minor marks from the valves touching on the tops which are not important, although we have not removed the pistons to check the rings yet
- on the yet installed head we estimate it to be the same as most of the valve adjuster caps ?(in german it is Hydrostößel) do not touch the camshaft so they seem to be bent also. Camshaft is turning only 300 degrees.

Further investigation will follow. Work will continue on Sunday. Some Pictures:







For pictures in high resolution / better quality:

cylinder head

engine

valves


Thanks a lot for all your help and hints

Harald

And Happy new year to all

Chris

Congratulations, add youself to the esteemed engine puller list !

Chris

heinrich

Nice work Harald. On my 10-14 there is nothing about TDC?

Harald944

Heinrich,
as mentioned above:
On page 10-14 there is written under point 22:
The pins for the oil temperature sensor.

This is just a translation mistake. In the german manual it is "the OT Geber" what is correctly translatet to "Top Dead Center". In the english manual it is wrong translated to "Oil Temperature".
In the pircture you can clearly see that the both pins are not oil temperature sensors....
The translator just confused the abbreviations... OT is not Oil Temperature but TDC!

Harald

Harald944

Just to keep you informed:
Pulled the second head, water pump and the oil pan today.

Findings so far:

- Only 31 of the 32 valves are bend!
- Measured crankshaft longitudinal play 0,11 mm (within normal limits)
- all cylinders look very good

Tormorrow we are going to pull the pistons and to measure the crankshaft bearing shells.

pictures:



Higher resolution:

oil pan
engine

What is the price of the valves in the states now?

Harald

Steve J.

Yikes! 31 of 32 valves! Must have made a hell of a noise. Good luck Harald and don't forget to replace the cam chains.