Same car, with $6,400 of added "value".....
11-29-2004, 12:26 PM
#50
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Mike, I really like your new Avatar......can I get a copy?
11-29-2004, 12:49 PM
#51
Drifting
I bought my 91 GT from Wilhoit and almost bought Kieth's GTS. I agree with Kieth, he stands behind every car he sells even after the sale, I don't know of any except possible lowmiler who will take care of something after the sale. Michael passes on alot of 928's, he is very picky, and thats what I like. He wants to make money, who doesn't? I doubt any of you faced with a opportunity to make 6-10k profit, would pass it up. If you say you wouldn't do that sort of thing to your fellow man then your not being honest with yourself.
11-30-2004, 09:22 PM
#52
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easy hos, don't confuse gross margin w/bottom line profit 
: for that wholesale price on a loaf of bread, you have to buy in bulk/truckloads (so you're tying up capital/financing costs), paying for shipping, power, payroll, land/building/lease, technology, advertising, all kinds of insurance/etc - and if nobody buys it, you have to dump it when it gets stale/unfit for sale.... and don't forget taxes on everything, cause uncle sam sure won't... 
nothing evil if nothing is misrepresented... if he could find them for $1.50 each and sell them for $100.00, he'd be called smart.... market prices are normally set by demand in a free market, so if buyers won't pay the asking price - sellers simply adjust...
IMO, there is also a bit of peace of mind buying from a reputable dealer, as long as you manage the transaction closely - and they almost always end up fixing something (new or not) w/a vehicle sale (at least w/me)... w/a PP, it's always a crap shoot w/little or no recourse... if you are willing to assume the same risk as the dealer, you should only pay wholesale... otherwise, you'll normally just pay the dealer to assume all the risk... pretty simple..
of course, a good dealer attempts to minimize the risks by being careful on his purchases and reselling to someone w/a realistic expectation... if the buyer flakes out or the car has a surprise, the seller gets to eat the transaction and/or start over... that risk is what determines (to a large extent) what the margin has to be in order to stay in business... ie, the higher the risk in a given transaction, the higher the gross margin needs to be to cover the mess when something blows up (and it always does to some extent)... that's why drug dealers make 100% margin (uh, from "cops"/discovery channel?), insurance rates supposedly on claims/history, loan rates on credit scores, etc...
the rip off is when there's supplier collusion, price fixing, or a monopoly starts price gouging... lot's of those around, unfortunately... but a small car dealer is unlikely to control an entire market, so he has to play by the supply/demand rules more than, say shell oil, state farm or haliburton w/a no bid contract
most retail operations make 35% or less gross margin (then have to deal w/expenses to find net profit)... his margins are not unlike what I've seen in the used auto industry... by focusing on a speciality market, and dealing in nice stuff, he can get a preimium (ie minimize risk and maximize profits)... no big deal... IMO, I'd rather go after ins./energy corps or shady dealers/PP's that are ripping folks off before I'd worry about this guy... I think he's just setting the curve for the rest of us
the real car bummer is for dodo's like me who have spent thousands on a car that will never fetch anything near what I've put into it, and that hope we'll live long enough to enjoy it after the wife finds out what we've done... talk about risk...
(dead man talking)
regards!
: for that wholesale price on a loaf of bread, you have to buy in bulk/truckloads (so you're tying up capital/financing costs), paying for shipping, power, payroll, land/building/lease, technology, advertising, all kinds of insurance/etc - and if nobody buys it, you have to dump it when it gets stale/unfit for sale.... and don't forget taxes on everything, cause uncle sam sure won't... nothing evil if nothing is misrepresented... if he could find them for $1.50 each and sell them for $100.00, he'd be called smart.... market prices are normally set by demand in a free market, so if buyers won't pay the asking price - sellers simply adjust...
IMO, there is also a bit of peace of mind buying from a reputable dealer, as long as you manage the transaction closely - and they almost always end up fixing something (new or not) w/a vehicle sale (at least w/me)... w/a PP, it's always a crap shoot w/little or no recourse... if you are willing to assume the same risk as the dealer, you should only pay wholesale... otherwise, you'll normally just pay the dealer to assume all the risk... pretty simple..
of course, a good dealer attempts to minimize the risks by being careful on his purchases and reselling to someone w/a realistic expectation... if the buyer flakes out or the car has a surprise, the seller gets to eat the transaction and/or start over... that risk is what determines (to a large extent) what the margin has to be in order to stay in business... ie, the higher the risk in a given transaction, the higher the gross margin needs to be to cover the mess when something blows up (and it always does to some extent)... that's why drug dealers make 100% margin (uh, from "cops"/discovery channel?), insurance rates supposedly on claims/history, loan rates on credit scores, etc...
the rip off is when there's supplier collusion, price fixing, or a monopoly starts price gouging... lot's of those around, unfortunately... but a small car dealer is unlikely to control an entire market, so he has to play by the supply/demand rules more than, say shell oil, state farm or haliburton w/a no bid contract
most retail operations make 35% or less gross margin (then have to deal w/expenses to find net profit)... his margins are not unlike what I've seen in the used auto industry... by focusing on a speciality market, and dealing in nice stuff, he can get a preimium (ie minimize risk and maximize profits)... no big deal... IMO, I'd rather go after ins./energy corps or shady dealers/PP's that are ripping folks off before I'd worry about this guy... I think he's just setting the curve for the rest of us
the real car bummer is for dodo's like me who have spent thousands on a car that will never fetch anything near what I've put into it, and that hope we'll live long enough to enjoy it after the wife finds out what we've done... talk about risk...
(dead man talking)regards!
12-01-2004, 10:39 AM
#53
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POST of the WEEK:
the real car bummer is for dodo's like me who have spent thousands on a car that will never fetch anything near what I've put into it, and that hope we'll live long enough to enjoy it after the wife finds out what we've done... talk about risk... (dead man talking)
the real car bummer is for dodo's like me who have spent thousands on a car that will never fetch anything near what I've put into it, and that hope we'll live long enough to enjoy it after the wife finds out what we've done... talk about risk... (dead man talking)
12-01-2004, 11:10 AM
#54
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To me the point is not what is legal Rob.
We would likely buy or not buy from this vendor based on his record and the value for money of the car. However, I think the original point is valid. This is shameless profiteering. May not be that bad of a thing and no-one said he should go to jail for it or that he was a bad person ... just that it looks pretty bad (like robbery) if you see it right there on the same old ebay ... one price today, SIX AND A HALF THOUSAND BLOODY DOLLARS MORE the next day
We would likely buy or not buy from this vendor based on his record and the value for money of the car. However, I think the original point is valid. This is shameless profiteering. May not be that bad of a thing and no-one said he should go to jail for it or that he was a bad person ... just that it looks pretty bad (like robbery) if you see it right there on the same old ebay ... one price today, SIX AND A HALF THOUSAND BLOODY DOLLARS MORE the next day
12-01-2004, 11:23 AM
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Why don't you bastards do something to prop up the value of the S and S4 models!!!!!! 
Originally Posted by low miler
Uh, Bill old buddy, the only thing peculiar is your analogy. If the scenerio were as you presented it, then Willhoit would have had to have sold the car while it was still in Miami.........at the guys house! Stupid.
He bought it from a gentlemen in Miami (breadmaker), had it shipped to his lot in Missouri (grocery store), and put a premium on the product for his time, knowledge and expertise.
It doesn't take a genious to follow my storyline, does it?
Your analogy makes absolutely no sense. Just pure anger, motivated by jealousy. Stupid.
He bought it from a gentlemen in Miami (breadmaker), had it shipped to his lot in Missouri (grocery store), and put a premium on the product for his time, knowledge and expertise.
It doesn't take a genious to follow my storyline, does it?
Your analogy makes absolutely no sense. Just pure anger, motivated by jealousy. Stupid.
12-01-2004, 11:50 AM
#56
Drifting
Rob, you seem to have your info on the auto resale industry a little off. 35% gross margin would be incredible, if thats the case in California you need to shop another state.
12-01-2004, 12:12 PM
#57
Three Wheelin'
There are price points for everything that is for sale!
I don’t blame the brokers for being a little over zealous in their pricing on these cars. It’s the buyers of the cars that set the final selling price by simply walking away if he or she thinks it’s a little inflated.
US $44,844.00 final, reserve not meet!
Well, the bidding has ended and no one pick up this 928, buyers may have seen this one for what it was!
For some reason, I have a feeling the last bidder, bid just shy of the reserve
I don’t blame the brokers for being a little over zealous in their pricing on these cars. It’s the buyers of the cars that set the final selling price by simply walking away if he or she thinks it’s a little inflated.
US $44,844.00 final, reserve not meet!
Well, the bidding has ended and no one pick up this 928, buyers may have seen this one for what it was!
For some reason, I have a feeling the last bidder, bid just shy of the reserve
12-01-2004, 12:38 PM
#58
Three Wheelin'
I can see by the past threads and posts there are a few on both sides that have ruffled feathers.
Here’s how I see it; the brokers /used car dealers/sales ***** buy these nice used 928 cars to make a few bucks. They get a few of them that have “ISSUES”! Than come here looking for free advice, hopping to find the problems and fix the issues as cheap as they can.
It’s not hard to spot the brokers /used car dealers/sales ***** from a true 928 enthusiast/owner after a few posts and to be totally honest, I don’t really care.
But there should be a little more balance in this trade. Maybe if the brokers /used car dealers/sales ***** were to come here with true deals and honest background on the cars first, there would be less criticism and hard feelings.
Yes, we may be looked at as a rough crowd, but most of us have been around the block a few times and call it like we see it!
Here’s how I see it; the brokers /used car dealers/sales ***** buy these nice used 928 cars to make a few bucks. They get a few of them that have “ISSUES”! Than come here looking for free advice, hopping to find the problems and fix the issues as cheap as they can.
It’s not hard to spot the brokers /used car dealers/sales ***** from a true 928 enthusiast/owner after a few posts and to be totally honest, I don’t really care.
But there should be a little more balance in this trade. Maybe if the brokers /used car dealers/sales ***** were to come here with true deals and honest background on the cars first, there would be less criticism and hard feelings.
Yes, we may be looked at as a rough crowd, but most of us have been around the block a few times and call it like we see it!
12-01-2004, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by heinrich
one price today, SIX AND A HALF THOUSAND BLOODY DOLLARS MORE the next day
POST of the WEEK:
OMG, I'm so happy, I never win anything!!! can't wait till I tell my wife I won!!
Rob, you seem to have your info on the auto resale industry a little off. 35% gross margin would be incredible, if thats the case in California you need to shop another state.
Why don't you bastards do something to prop up the value of the S and S4 models!!!!!!
not so sure I could watch either though... maybe a demolotion derby w/britney spears on the hood? back to the bat cave... later dudes...