chips on ebay
12-09-2004, 07:09 PM
#47
Chronic Tool Dropper
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Your ears are flapping...
12-09-2004, 09:06 PM
#48
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heinrich:
This is not about age. We can speculate about our relative maturites til the end of time. I am an excellent people person in general. But this is beyond such pseudo pleasantries. We are not in kindergarten, we all know what right and wrong is... it's just that some people are willing to forgoe doing the right thing because they don't want to be inconvenienced... But I'm old enough (I'm getting the grey hairs to prove it), I've been around, I've seen a lot of lame and bad things, I've been dealing with IP theft for years, and I've heard comments like yours for years... your comments are nothing new, it's all been said before and it never keeps people out of trouble or jail. Kevn Mitnick (famous for IP theft) made all the same arguments you, et al. are making... actually, his arguments were far better. When he stole tens ouf thousands of credit card numbers, social security numbers, corporate America's bread and butter IP, he still argued these arguments after getting out of prison. For all his excuses, beliefs, and his statements of "nobody was hurt"... and that is exactly what he said... he was still a criminal. Oh, and it's not his credit card number theft that was his biggest crime, it was IP theft.
But it didn't take all that for me. I stole something, I got caught... I knew I blew it. I didn't try to convince everybody that I was justified, I knew I did something wrong. There is almost never a justification for crime... almost.
As far as being positive in my approach... while that may keep you from calling me a ***** in response to my so called tirade (hardly a tirade, people here have larger debates here on the dynamics of supercharging vs. turbocharging), it's not going to convince anybody of anything. I'm not trying to sway sombody's political views, or convince them to like oysters on their pizza. This is black and white crime, despite the fact the you can't "bring yourself" to believe it. This is so very serious stuff it's crime, it's theft, it's being an accessory to theft. If you don't believe it, you can contact eBay, Autothority, and the forum moderator and give them the details why you are right... I'm sure you'll find out if they agree with you.... okay, maybe not from ebay, they don't seem to care about anything except for stopping ****.
Last comment, then I'll shut-up. These chips are not products made by Porsche. The Porsche chips were reverse engineered, which could be a copyright violation but it most likely went through a clean room implementation, so Porsche probably decided it's not a problem... I think most engineers understand and promote clean room methods, especially in the old days. Autothority did the research and development of the new maps and then burned it to new chips. They are charging for their research, development, and results, and yes they are marking it up... but it's theirs to markup. Nobody can tell you what you have to charge for your time, effort, and property; you don't have the right to determine what they charge for theirs. And you don't have the right to commit a crime to get your way; you can do it, but you don't have the right.
Well, cheers and thanks for the debate.
Abdul
This is not about age. We can speculate about our relative maturites til the end of time. I am an excellent people person in general. But this is beyond such pseudo pleasantries. We are not in kindergarten, we all know what right and wrong is... it's just that some people are willing to forgoe doing the right thing because they don't want to be inconvenienced... But I'm old enough (I'm getting the grey hairs to prove it), I've been around, I've seen a lot of lame and bad things, I've been dealing with IP theft for years, and I've heard comments like yours for years... your comments are nothing new, it's all been said before and it never keeps people out of trouble or jail. Kevn Mitnick (famous for IP theft) made all the same arguments you, et al. are making... actually, his arguments were far better. When he stole tens ouf thousands of credit card numbers, social security numbers, corporate America's bread and butter IP, he still argued these arguments after getting out of prison. For all his excuses, beliefs, and his statements of "nobody was hurt"... and that is exactly what he said... he was still a criminal. Oh, and it's not his credit card number theft that was his biggest crime, it was IP theft.
But it didn't take all that for me. I stole something, I got caught... I knew I blew it. I didn't try to convince everybody that I was justified, I knew I did something wrong. There is almost never a justification for crime... almost.
As far as being positive in my approach... while that may keep you from calling me a ***** in response to my so called tirade (hardly a tirade, people here have larger debates here on the dynamics of supercharging vs. turbocharging), it's not going to convince anybody of anything. I'm not trying to sway sombody's political views, or convince them to like oysters on their pizza. This is black and white crime, despite the fact the you can't "bring yourself" to believe it. This is so very serious stuff it's crime, it's theft, it's being an accessory to theft. If you don't believe it, you can contact eBay, Autothority, and the forum moderator and give them the details why you are right... I'm sure you'll find out if they agree with you.... okay, maybe not from ebay, they don't seem to care about anything except for stopping ****.
Last comment, then I'll shut-up. These chips are not products made by Porsche. The Porsche chips were reverse engineered, which could be a copyright violation but it most likely went through a clean room implementation, so Porsche probably decided it's not a problem... I think most engineers understand and promote clean room methods, especially in the old days. Autothority did the research and development of the new maps and then burned it to new chips. They are charging for their research, development, and results, and yes they are marking it up... but it's theirs to markup. Nobody can tell you what you have to charge for your time, effort, and property; you don't have the right to determine what they charge for theirs. And you don't have the right to commit a crime to get your way; you can do it, but you don't have the right.
Well, cheers and thanks for the debate.
Abdul
12-09-2004, 09:29 PM
#51
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My ears are flapping ... no idea what you mean.
Oh yes, Bob ... is that DOCTOR Bob?
.... Bob ... do you own the factory manuals on CD? Did you know that is illegal? Even if you own the paper ones? And Bob ... do you own the PET on CD? Do you Bob? Doctor? .... or wait, don't tell me you own the Jim M CD with all kinds of Porsche proprietary data ... DO YOU BOB? Nah ... course not. Cause YOU are a DOCTOR. Flap your ears at that.
Oh yes, Bob ... is that DOCTOR Bob?
.... Bob ... do you own the factory manuals on CD? Did you know that is illegal? Even if you own the paper ones? And Bob ... do you own the PET on CD? Do you Bob? Doctor? .... or wait, don't tell me you own the Jim M CD with all kinds of Porsche proprietary data ... DO YOU BOB? Nah ... course not. Cause YOU are a DOCTOR. Flap your ears at that.
12-09-2004, 09:37 PM
#54
928 Collector
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Abdul it's really simple. If Autothority can copy Porsche's numbers that only Porsche could possibly have created, and modify it a little (I mean a LITTLE) ... and burn it ... how does that make them sole owners of the data? I said before I know someone who has reverse-engineered this stuff, he is on this list. And he can and does modify the numbers in exactly the same way Autothority do. Higher rev limit is most of it, and I think MAYBE a little cam advance here and there. So not it's theirs? And anyone else who reverse engineers Porsche's stuff? What if they happen to choose values very similar to Autothority's, siply because it make sense?
Anyway DOCTOR BOB has now taken it upon himself to flap his ears (whatever the f that means) ... so I'm done. Abdul I was trying to give you some helpful advice. Granted bringing to your attention that you were being a ***** was probably a little strongly-worded, especially since you pale in the shadow of the mammoth DOCTOR.
Anyway DOCTOR BOB has now taken it upon himself to flap his ears (whatever the f that means) ... so I'm done. Abdul I was trying to give you some helpful advice. Granted bringing to your attention that you were being a ***** was probably a little strongly-worded, especially since you pale in the shadow of the mammoth DOCTOR.
Originally Posted by abduln
heinrich:
This is not about age. We can speculate about our relative maturites til the end of time. I am an excellent people person in general. But this is beyond such pseudo pleasantries. We are not in kindergarten, we all know what right and wrong is... it's just that some people are willing to forgoe doing the right thing because they don't want to be inconvenienced... But I'm old enough (I'm getting the grey hairs to prove it), I've been around, I've seen a lot of lame and bad things, I've been dealing with IP theft for years, and I've heard comments like yours for years... your comments are nothing new, it's all been said before and it never keeps people out of trouble or jail. Kevn Mitnick (famous for IP theft) made all the same arguments you, et al. are making... actually, his arguments were far better. When he stole tens ouf thousands of credit card numbers, social security numbers, corporate America's bread and butter IP, he still argued these arguments after getting out of prison. For all his excuses, beliefs, and his statements of "nobody was hurt"... and that is exactly what he said... he was still a criminal. Oh, and it's not his credit card number theft that was his biggest crime, it was IP theft.
But it didn't take all that for me. I stole something, I got caught... I knew I blew it. I didn't try to convince everybody that I was justified, I knew I did something wrong. There is almost never a justification for crime... almost.
As far as being positive in my approach... while that may keep you from calling me a ***** in response to my so called tirade (hardly a tirade, people here have larger debates here on the dynamics of supercharging vs. turbocharging), it's not going to convince anybody of anything. I'm not trying to sway sombody's political views, or convince them to like oysters on their pizza. This is black and white crime, despite the fact the you can't "bring yourself" to believe it. This is so very serious stuff it's crime, it's theft, it's being an accessory to theft. If you don't believe it, you can contact eBay, Autothority, and the forum moderator and give them the details why you are right... I'm sure you'll find out if they agree with you.... okay, maybe not from ebay, they don't seem to care about anything except for stopping ****.
Last comment, then I'll shut-up. These chips are not products made by Porsche. The Porsche chips were reverse engineered, which could be a copyright violation but it most likely went through a clean room implementation, so Porsche probably decided it's not a problem... I think most engineers understand and promote clean room methods, especially in the old days. Autothority did the research and development of the new maps and then burned it to new chips. They are charging for their research, development, and results, and yes they are marking it up... but it's theirs to markup. Nobody can tell you what you have to charge for your time, effort, and property; you don't have the right to determine what they charge for theirs. And you don't have the right to commit a crime to get your way; you can do it, but you don't have the right.
Well, cheers and thanks for the debate.
Abdul
This is not about age. We can speculate about our relative maturites til the end of time. I am an excellent people person in general. But this is beyond such pseudo pleasantries. We are not in kindergarten, we all know what right and wrong is... it's just that some people are willing to forgoe doing the right thing because they don't want to be inconvenienced... But I'm old enough (I'm getting the grey hairs to prove it), I've been around, I've seen a lot of lame and bad things, I've been dealing with IP theft for years, and I've heard comments like yours for years... your comments are nothing new, it's all been said before and it never keeps people out of trouble or jail. Kevn Mitnick (famous for IP theft) made all the same arguments you, et al. are making... actually, his arguments were far better. When he stole tens ouf thousands of credit card numbers, social security numbers, corporate America's bread and butter IP, he still argued these arguments after getting out of prison. For all his excuses, beliefs, and his statements of "nobody was hurt"... and that is exactly what he said... he was still a criminal. Oh, and it's not his credit card number theft that was his biggest crime, it was IP theft.
But it didn't take all that for me. I stole something, I got caught... I knew I blew it. I didn't try to convince everybody that I was justified, I knew I did something wrong. There is almost never a justification for crime... almost.
As far as being positive in my approach... while that may keep you from calling me a ***** in response to my so called tirade (hardly a tirade, people here have larger debates here on the dynamics of supercharging vs. turbocharging), it's not going to convince anybody of anything. I'm not trying to sway sombody's political views, or convince them to like oysters on their pizza. This is black and white crime, despite the fact the you can't "bring yourself" to believe it. This is so very serious stuff it's crime, it's theft, it's being an accessory to theft. If you don't believe it, you can contact eBay, Autothority, and the forum moderator and give them the details why you are right... I'm sure you'll find out if they agree with you.... okay, maybe not from ebay, they don't seem to care about anything except for stopping ****.
Last comment, then I'll shut-up. These chips are not products made by Porsche. The Porsche chips were reverse engineered, which could be a copyright violation but it most likely went through a clean room implementation, so Porsche probably decided it's not a problem... I think most engineers understand and promote clean room methods, especially in the old days. Autothority did the research and development of the new maps and then burned it to new chips. They are charging for their research, development, and results, and yes they are marking it up... but it's theirs to markup. Nobody can tell you what you have to charge for your time, effort, and property; you don't have the right to determine what they charge for theirs. And you don't have the right to commit a crime to get your way; you can do it, but you don't have the right.
Well, cheers and thanks for the debate.
Abdul
12-09-2004, 10:07 PM
#56
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Rennlist Member
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Originally Posted by Randy V
I have the Penthouse PETS on CD - are those OK?
I can live with the terrible guilt that comes with it 
12-10-2004, 03:05 AM
#57
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Hi Abdul. You've taped movies before right! You've taped programs on Educational tv that sell their programs on VHS at the end of the program right! Not all shows are legal to tape!!!!
And NO you don't know me; nor do I think I know you because of YOUR opinions!!!
Yes I am a good ****-very good! I am very aware of things which are right and wrong!-VERY , VERY!-At times my self-righteousess controls my life!! I have never met anyone that didn't hang around with me longer than they should have!! I'm very pop, pop, popular with anyone that knows me, not because they have a good time in my presence but because I'm a swell fella and they know what I stand for!!-TooT-TooT!!
I feel that ripping off 'original chips' is wrong but they have been changed and obscoured somewhat from the original product that we are not even talking about the original recipe anymore. So please stop BARBEQUING anyone who would like to take a dip with NON original chips-PASS THE POTATO"S!
And NO you don't know me; nor do I think I know you because of YOUR opinions!!!
Yes I am a good ****-very good! I am very aware of things which are right and wrong!-VERY , VERY!-At times my self-righteousess controls my life!! I have never met anyone that didn't hang around with me longer than they should have!! I'm very pop, pop, popular with anyone that knows me, not because they have a good time in my presence but because I'm a swell fella and they know what I stand for!!-TooT-TooT!!
I feel that ripping off 'original chips' is wrong but they have been changed and obscoured somewhat from the original product that we are not even talking about the original recipe anymore. So please stop BARBEQUING anyone who would like to take a dip with NON original chips-PASS THE POTATO"S!
12-10-2004, 03:58 AM
#58
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Actually, I buy all of my movies on DVD... I've taped a couple movies some years ago, and taped over them. I only tape Smallville and misc tv shows when I am out of town so I can watch it later, totally legal.
However, all broadcast/cable shows are legal to tape under fair use... The law determines how you can use the tape (I stated a bit of detail in a previous post in the the thread). Banners that state that it is illegal to record "this" broadcast are not legally binding, it's an attempt for the owners to defend their copyright. You can tape it and watch it until smoke comes out of your VCR... but if you sell it, charge for viewing it, or rebroadcast it in any way, then you have committed piracy and copyright infringment. Technically you are not supposed to lend it to anybody either, if I recall, but I could be wrong on that one.
Unfortunately, you have to defend your copyright on an ongoing basis or else sometimes you end up in court with people claiming that you gave up your right to it because you didn't defend it (hence the banners). They never win, but it's more of a pain and more expensive to defend your copyright in court than it is by putting up a banner. Ford ran into this when Chrysler sued them to use the name Cobra for the soon to be Viper. Chrysler claimed that because Ford never defended the use of the name Cobra by various replicar manufacturers, that Ford should no longer have the copyright to the name Cobra... it obviously didn't work. While this ploy has never worked, it still ends up in court once in a while.
I suppose some company could go to court and try to overturn the fair-use rules... but I doubt you'll find any studio or broadcast company wanting to end fair use... without fair use you wouldn't sell many VCR's and DVD recorders or mp3 players which are profitable for many of the companies involved in the broadcast industry.
As for me giving a "BARBEQUING"... I was just debating with you and hoping you'd change your mind. If I wanted to BBQ sombody I would have simply reported everybody to the moderator, Autothority, the police, and Ebay. No I have no intention of doing it, but just saying I think you would have found that they wouldn't be as understanding as you think they should be... well, Ebay would probably end the auction and then ignore the problem as they are more interested in filtering their **** auctions. While you'd think such reporting would not endup anywhere, it actually does sometimes even for minor things... I just wouldn't go there though, it's not my MO.
BTW, an example of why this thread disturbs me so is that if you notice there is another recent thread of some stolen Supercup wheels... I'm sure they'll be up on ebay in a month or two, and I wonder how many people from this site might bid on them not caring that the might have come from a fellow rennlister who got royally screwed by a thief. A lot of the reasons given here for buying the chips can be said and used to justify buying the wheels.
Regards,
Abdul
However, all broadcast/cable shows are legal to tape under fair use... The law determines how you can use the tape (I stated a bit of detail in a previous post in the the thread). Banners that state that it is illegal to record "this" broadcast are not legally binding, it's an attempt for the owners to defend their copyright. You can tape it and watch it until smoke comes out of your VCR... but if you sell it, charge for viewing it, or rebroadcast it in any way, then you have committed piracy and copyright infringment. Technically you are not supposed to lend it to anybody either, if I recall, but I could be wrong on that one.
Unfortunately, you have to defend your copyright on an ongoing basis or else sometimes you end up in court with people claiming that you gave up your right to it because you didn't defend it (hence the banners). They never win, but it's more of a pain and more expensive to defend your copyright in court than it is by putting up a banner. Ford ran into this when Chrysler sued them to use the name Cobra for the soon to be Viper. Chrysler claimed that because Ford never defended the use of the name Cobra by various replicar manufacturers, that Ford should no longer have the copyright to the name Cobra... it obviously didn't work. While this ploy has never worked, it still ends up in court once in a while.
I suppose some company could go to court and try to overturn the fair-use rules... but I doubt you'll find any studio or broadcast company wanting to end fair use... without fair use you wouldn't sell many VCR's and DVD recorders or mp3 players which are profitable for many of the companies involved in the broadcast industry.
As for me giving a "BARBEQUING"... I was just debating with you and hoping you'd change your mind. If I wanted to BBQ sombody I would have simply reported everybody to the moderator, Autothority, the police, and Ebay. No I have no intention of doing it, but just saying I think you would have found that they wouldn't be as understanding as you think they should be... well, Ebay would probably end the auction and then ignore the problem as they are more interested in filtering their **** auctions. While you'd think such reporting would not endup anywhere, it actually does sometimes even for minor things... I just wouldn't go there though, it's not my MO.
BTW, an example of why this thread disturbs me so is that if you notice there is another recent thread of some stolen Supercup wheels... I'm sure they'll be up on ebay in a month or two, and I wonder how many people from this site might bid on them not caring that the might have come from a fellow rennlister who got royally screwed by a thief. A lot of the reasons given here for buying the chips can be said and used to justify buying the wheels.
Regards,
Abdul
