CWO4Mann

I think Dr Bob is correct. If a person somehow engineers a performance chip then that software would belong to the person who created it. Even if the actual program (application) is somehow at odds with the original manufacturer (e.g. Porsche not liking you using the chip). Thus, if the programmer of the chip owns the software by virtue of his or her efforts, then making a copy of that software by re-burning the chip is, ipso facto, a copyright viiolation. By the same logic, if we as end users buy one of the performance chips and do not make sure the chip is legally produced, then we as purchasers are liable. A good idea to protect ourselves from prosecution -- which is likely with people actively watching and waiting for us to admit the purchase and/or use of violative materials -- is to immediately destroy the illegally obtains items. We can still be prosecuted or suffer civil liability (more likely), but we have a defense of good faith in getting rid of the offending item. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised is people who are copyright law activists are not already taking names and making a list to turn over to lawyers. Remember, anyone can collect names of violators and bring a civil suit against someone else -- particularly someone who has admitted in writing that he or she owns and uses an illegal item.

Greggles

Dr.
I just called Autothority, they said no problem......just kidding
Your point is vailid!
I'm not saying it's right, I'm not condoning it. What I am saying is that the PERCEPTION is that no one is getting hurt. Is someone being hurt?
Well the record companies were able to make that point against Napster.

Jeez I hope you don't have a WSM CD sitting around. We can't have Porsche taking a hit on their bottom line.

dr bob

Porsche doesn't take that to their own bottom line. They "gave" the rights to the manual to a third-party printing company in Germany, which produces the manuals for them. Got into this discussion a year or two ago with PCNA parts manager, at a time when the manuals seemed to be on terminal backorder. Turns out that Porsche has no remaining ownership of the manuals, and therefore cant't license production to the OC or other interested parties. At the marked-up price of manuals from Porsche, there may never be a sufficient mass of pre-paid orders to make a print run practical. I guess the owners of the WSM on CD need to watch out for the current owners of that IP, ratyher than the previous owners, Porsche.

All of this should drive up the value of my paper WSM set, right? It was on sale at a local dealer in 1998, through an ad in Panorama. $275 at the time, seemed steep but whooda thunked that the manuals would appreciate at least as fast as the car depreciated during that same period? No greasy pingerprints on either the expensive paper or the inexpensive car...

abduln

Is sombody getting hurt? Definitely yes. If the chips are Autothority IP, then Autothority is getting hurt. Every bogus chipset is a ~$695 loss for them. It doesn't matter if they can afford the loss, or if they are overcharging, or even if nobody is interested in the product, unless you pay for it you have you have no right to use it (that's the plural you, no directly you).

Some people will claim that they wouldn't buy the Autothority chip if they had to pay $695, so it's not like they lost any money on the stolen IP (nobody here has claimed that yet). That's not sufficient. If anybody here wrote a program, a book, whatever and offered it for sale, and then somebody took a copy of it without paying, I suspect nobody here would accept "I stole it, but I wouldn't buy it if I had to pay for it so you didn't lose anything" as a valid response.

I'll fess up. I thought Autothority no longer made these chips, so I bought the chips off of Ebay some months ago. After somebody asked about my experience with the chips (which I didn't install), I realized that I never actually verified that the chips were no longer available. I looked it up and they definitely were for sale legitimately. I didn't install the bogus chips because I want to purchase the legit chips. I am not saying my original thinking was any better than getting copies of available chips, it was pretty poor on my part. I aim to remedy the issue with the purchase of the authentic work, plain and simple.

Props to Dr. Bob

Regards,
Abdul

jcb928

"I didn't install the bogus chips because I want to purchase the legit chips."

How much do you want for them?

mpesik

Dr. bob about a conscience , I've got a HUGE one!!- But asking for 695$U.S is pure robbery! What about Autothority's conscience! Like I said I'll take 2 and open doors a little more often for the old ladies!
Mike

Chris

I am not for one minute advocating the copying of Authority chips and then distributing them on Ebay, that being said Autothority took Porsche's code and modified it slightly, did they ask Porsche for permission ? I v much doubt it, and if Autothority claimed to own the code I would have thought that would be a little sticky legally.

Did they put effort and $$ into producing their product ? Absolutely.

To tell you the truth, for $695 I could buy an EPROM emulator, take my car to the dyno, make several runs, modify the map, buy an EPROM programmer and still have money to spare.

However the best bang for the buck is to buy a piggy back.

Chris

wicked944

fake or lagit, I got it I spent $90.00, and never been happier. I was able to put it in myself, I got it from a guy here in California, no names, but from ebay. Stealing is wrong this is true, but what I did isn't stealing if the guy I got it from is breaking the law to make them, well thats his problem. I was just in the right spot at the right time to get a great deal. I say buy it, don't just straight steal it.

wicked944

928 specialists have a good deal on autothority chips real ones for $450 thats the best deal out there.

Imo000

$450 is still waaaay to much for a chip set. As I stated before, now days a chip set should not cost more than $250.

Only if, Authority would lower there price to $250 this problem would solve itself and they would sell 10X more of this product than before. Being greedy made people opt for “alternative” solutions.

Jim bailey - 928 International

Interesting reading about rationalization ,I think this thread says more about human nature than it does chips

dr bob

Last time I looked, 'receiving stolen property' is a crime just as the original theft is. Buying the knock-offs encourages others to be criminals too. Bragging that you got a set of stolen $500 chips is just like bragging about having stolen tires on your car. You did pay for those tires and wheels, right?

To those folks who thing that the price is 'too high', I guess that means you don't really need them.




Remember, my original reply was addressed to those who still have a conscience. almost half of the replies are from folks who obviously don't. ;-(

wicked944

This is now a morals discussion on if it's right to buy them if a cd wasn't $20.00, kazaa and lmewire would never even exist. We don't actually know if that guy on ebay is doing this illegaly or if he sat down with a tunable chip and made it work better. Autothority isn't the only guy out there so just because you don't have a big company doesn't mean your stealing.

Imo000

By the same logic. Wouldn’t every aftermarket or repro part be a copy as well, thus making it illegal?

heinrich

I'm with Chris. Seems Autothority didn't pay Porsche as far as we know or even ask Porsche's permission, to copy the code and tables. They did some modification, likely just enough to make it their own legal handiwork. Copies of ANYTHING for commercial purposes, IMHO are not just illegal but not acceptable way of doing things.

Copies for personal use at no cost, IMHO are another thing altogether. If I can copy the word PORSCHE onto my T-Shirt, I will do so and be happy and proud. I would never dream of selling that though. Ever. Even when I had spare chips I was going to sell them at my cost. Never did though. Now one also must add that the free flow of information as a result of some of the incredibly useful CD compilations, has allowed our cars to live on. Imagine if we were NOT ABLE (under threat of lawsuit) to post ANY Porsche-proprietary info. I am fully aware that this is the LEGAL way but in that scenario of course, there WOULD BE NO MORE PORSCHE 928'S because no-one here could afford them and almost no-one would be willing to work on them.

Why?

Look at the recent price hike in WSM's, as well as most dealers' incapability if not outright refusal to perform a simple Porsche 928 oil change.