thermostat temperature
11-06-2004, 02:35 AM
#46
Burning Brakes
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Hi,
heinrich - one thing I never talk is crap AND I FIND YOUR COMMENTS HIGHLY OFFENSIVE!!
Anything I have ever posted on here or elsewhere is able to be backed up by facts - that is my style and has been for fifty years or so! So please read and ABSORB the previous posts from the others and I before you fire off your Kaleshnikov.
You - who expect one line answers to complex subjects - should at the least have an open and analytical mind!!!!!
IMHO I stated the reasons why the OEM 83C thermostat is better than the 75C aftermarket one by providing actual USER data, and in the end you should accept that the Porsche Engineers who designed the engine and supervised its on-going construction NEVER, OVER NEARLY 20 YEARS OF PRODUCTION, SAW A NEED TO FIT A 75C THERMOSTAT AS STANDARD! NEITHER DO I!!! THEY DID HOWEVER SEE A NEED TO FIT COMPLEX AND COSTLY FLAPS TO THE S4 WITH THE INTENT TO GET THE ENGINE QUICKLY UP TO OPERATING TEMPERATURE. DOES THIS TELL YOU SOMETHING?
As well heinrich please tell us about the operating data for your 75C thermostat as I requested earlier
as I can't sleep at night without that data!
As a parting comment I will tell you that one operating parameter I police in all of my VERY EXPENSIVE ($35000) engines is their on-going core operating temperature. It is stored in each engine's ECM for 90days and any instant alert - electronic or manual - of operating outside the normal range FOR BOTH COOLANT AND OIL is actioned immediately. I EXPECT my engines to cover at least 1.5m kms without teardown - so does my oil supplier (Mobil) and engine supplier (MTU-DD - apart of DB)! We have been VERY successful in this since 1992 paying special attention to the fan on temp (now 94C) and off temp (90C)! These engines now run much of their life with the fan OFF!
But this has been MY WAY for the last several decades and I do not intend to inflict this on you - you are welcome to your way too and I wish you well!
Regards
Doug
heinrich - one thing I never talk is crap AND I FIND YOUR COMMENTS HIGHLY OFFENSIVE!!
Anything I have ever posted on here or elsewhere is able to be backed up by facts - that is my style and has been for fifty years or so! So please read and ABSORB the previous posts from the others and I before you fire off your Kaleshnikov.
You - who expect one line answers to complex subjects - should at the least have an open and analytical mind!!!!!
IMHO I stated the reasons why the OEM 83C thermostat is better than the 75C aftermarket one by providing actual USER data, and in the end you should accept that the Porsche Engineers who designed the engine and supervised its on-going construction NEVER, OVER NEARLY 20 YEARS OF PRODUCTION, SAW A NEED TO FIT A 75C THERMOSTAT AS STANDARD! NEITHER DO I!!! THEY DID HOWEVER SEE A NEED TO FIT COMPLEX AND COSTLY FLAPS TO THE S4 WITH THE INTENT TO GET THE ENGINE QUICKLY UP TO OPERATING TEMPERATURE. DOES THIS TELL YOU SOMETHING?
As well heinrich please tell us about the operating data for your 75C thermostat as I requested earlier
as I can't sleep at night without that data!
As a parting comment I will tell you that one operating parameter I police in all of my VERY EXPENSIVE ($35000) engines is their on-going core operating temperature. It is stored in each engine's ECM for 90days and any instant alert - electronic or manual - of operating outside the normal range FOR BOTH COOLANT AND OIL is actioned immediately. I EXPECT my engines to cover at least 1.5m kms without teardown - so does my oil supplier (Mobil) and engine supplier (MTU-DD - apart of DB)! We have been VERY successful in this since 1992 paying special attention to the fan on temp (now 94C) and off temp (90C)! These engines now run much of their life with the fan OFF!
But this has been MY WAY for the last several decades and I do not intend to inflict this on you - you are welcome to your way too and I wish you well!
Regards
Doug
11-06-2004, 12:09 PM
#47
928 Collector
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Doug, it is normal for people with limited facts to get defensive, so don't feel alone. I do not find your comments offensive, I find them highly defensive.
I'm really not excited about your posts Doug. To be honest, I have been doubting your posts from the get-go, also as it concerns your millions of lines of supposed scientific data that you have allegedly single-handedly collected over the past 50 years, on several thousands of vehicles.
Doug, here Wally has told me why the 83 deg thermostat is in his opinion a better option ... and he did it in no more than a few succinct lines. I want real facts and I've now finally got them. Do you really think I believe that you have been running out there every day the past 20 years with an infrared pyrometer and measured 20 trucks and a bunch of Porsches' core temperatures?
Bull. Go ahead and say it if you like but I do not believe you.
Now, about your defensive comments: I asked you simple questions - went as far as asking you specifically to NOT post the extraneous bullsh1t ... "give me a straingt answer Doug" I said ..... your response? More rhetoric. Get this, again:
I DO NOT BELIEVE YOU.
I'm really not excited about your posts Doug. To be honest, I have been doubting your posts from the get-go, also as it concerns your millions of lines of supposed scientific data that you have allegedly single-handedly collected over the past 50 years, on several thousands of vehicles.
Doug, here Wally has told me why the 83 deg thermostat is in his opinion a better option ... and he did it in no more than a few succinct lines. I want real facts and I've now finally got them. Do you really think I believe that you have been running out there every day the past 20 years with an infrared pyrometer and measured 20 trucks and a bunch of Porsches' core temperatures?
Bull. Go ahead and say it if you like but I do not believe you.
Now, about your defensive comments: I asked you simple questions - went as far as asking you specifically to NOT post the extraneous bullsh1t ... "give me a straingt answer Doug" I said ..... your response? More rhetoric. Get this, again:
I DO NOT BELIEVE YOU.
11-06-2004, 12:24 PM
#48
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To paraphrase Heinrich's position on the matter; don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up.
Heinrich, intelligent people value discourse and argument as an intellectual tool, we value our ignorance and suspect our knowledge. Don't blame your failure to understand Doug's posts on Doug. His failure was to assume that both you and he were searching for facts, not defending a position.
Heinrich, intelligent people value discourse and argument as an intellectual tool, we value our ignorance and suspect our knowledge. Don't blame your failure to understand Doug's posts on Doug. His failure was to assume that both you and he were searching for facts, not defending a position.
11-06-2004, 12:59 PM
#49
928 Collector
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Ernest, you guys have been saying two things that directly opposed each other:
1) the lower-temp thermostat does not make the car run any cooler and
2) because the lower-temp thermostat makes the car run cooler, there is a problem - so use the stock thermostat.
In regards to:
1) The actual problems with a lower-temp unit were never verbalised by anyone until Wally stated very plainly what the hazards were.
2) Statements by you Ernest, and others (not Doug in so many words but certainly implicit, see his comments about the gauge), that the lower-temp thermostat had *no* effect except to extend the time the car warms up, are incorrect. Wally says the unit makes the car run cooler, and this makes perfect sense. I knew this already from years of driving with the lower-temp unit.
Conclusion: I am swayed that the 83deg thermostat is a better way to go. Because it allows the car to run HOTTER.
Thoughts: I am thinking that alongside the 83deg thermostat, a 75deg fan switch may be a good idea, so as to keep the radiator at lower temp, and when the thermostat calls for cool water, it will get very cool water. Thoughts?
1) the lower-temp thermostat does not make the car run any cooler and
2) because the lower-temp thermostat makes the car run cooler, there is a problem - so use the stock thermostat.
In regards to:
1) The actual problems with a lower-temp unit were never verbalised by anyone until Wally stated very plainly what the hazards were.
2) Statements by you Ernest, and others (not Doug in so many words but certainly implicit, see his comments about the gauge), that the lower-temp thermostat had *no* effect except to extend the time the car warms up, are incorrect. Wally says the unit makes the car run cooler, and this makes perfect sense. I knew this already from years of driving with the lower-temp unit.
Conclusion: I am swayed that the 83deg thermostat is a better way to go. Because it allows the car to run HOTTER.
Thoughts: I am thinking that alongside the 83deg thermostat, a 75deg fan switch may be a good idea, so as to keep the radiator at lower temp, and when the thermostat calls for cool water, it will get very cool water. Thoughts?
11-06-2004, 01:03 PM
#50
Drifting
some electronically controlled thermostat reads...
http://waw.wardsauto.com/ar/auto_thermostat_thy_days/
& electric water pumps too:
http://www.dana.com/technology/intelligentcooling.shtm
http://waw.wardsauto.com/ar/auto_thermostat_thy_days/
& electric water pumps too:
http://www.dana.com/technology/intelligentcooling.shtm
11-06-2004, 01:26 PM
#51
Rennlist Member
Whoa guys, have a beer.... try to relax a bit.... whare is that Rodney pic? 
That's what I'm running, and I am completely satisfied with it... now that I have enough airflow. My temp gauge sits rock steady in the middle while moving, and at other times, such as around town on a hot day, it cycles around the center half of the center section of the gauge. IOW, If I consider the two white lines near the center to be the "range", the needle cycles around between 1/4 and 3/4 points in that range.
BTW Heinrich, are you unaware of the vast array of datalogging devices that have been in common use by trucking companies over the last few decades? I for one don't find Dougs data collection claims to be at all outrageous or unreasonable.
Originally Posted by heinrich
Thoughts: I am thinking that alongside the 83deg thermostat, a 75deg fan switch may be a good idea, so as to keep the radiator at lower temp, and when the thermostat calls for cool water, it will get very cool water. Thoughts?
BTW Heinrich, are you unaware of the vast array of datalogging devices that have been in common use by trucking companies over the last few decades? I for one don't find Dougs data collection claims to be at all outrageous or unreasonable.
11-06-2004, 01:33 PM
#52
Rennlist Member
Additionally, I would agree that the cooler thermostat would not make the car run any cooler if the cooling system is running at capacity. IOW, suppose I had a marginal cooling system, and under some set of conditions the car runs at 105°C, thermostat wide open[Edit]I mean fully activated... that means closed, right? 
[/Edit]. In this particular case, I would think that the lower temp thermostat would have little or no effect in the end. But Heinrich, you are referring to conditions where you DO have excess cooling capacity... therefore in that case the cooler thermostat will make the engine run cooler.
But we all know that a cooling system running at capacity is a problem in need of rectification, and hopefully nobody runs that way for any length of time...
[/Edit]. In this particular case, I would think that the lower temp thermostat would have little or no effect in the end. But Heinrich, you are referring to conditions where you DO have excess cooling capacity... therefore in that case the cooler thermostat will make the engine run cooler. But we all know that a cooling system running at capacity is a problem in need of rectification, and hopefully nobody runs that way for any length of time...
