rixter

I started the track project and so far this is where I am
interior removed except for front seats, dash/pod, steering wheel
fuel system gone except for tank (next couple days)
my next step is to remove the engine and decide how I want to procede for a track powerplant
my main options are to rebuild the current 4.5l or switch it out with a 32v
I don't forsee myself becoming another Anderson or Kibort (I am realistic once in a while) and don't want to go hog wild engine wise
I have a set of 79 heads freshly refinished and a full gasket set already
should I just sell this one as is and put that money towards a 32v or rebuild it and hope to sell it for more or just rebuild it and put it back in??????
the 32v is going to require many add ons I'm sure, but is this that hard since the car is essentially stripped?

hacker-pschorr

I thought about the same thing for a while. I'm sticking with a 16V for now, here's why:

1. Cheaper - I've found complete engines between $500 - $1000
2. Simple - since I've never worked on an S4 other than assisting a SC install with Mr.Murphy, I realize this is just lack of experience on my part.
3. Non-interfearance (US, if left stock)
4. Lighter (yea, this reason is a stretch)
5. i already have a running 16V engine

BC

I'd say pick up a set of those nice 95mm pistons from ebay and go wild with cams. Well, thats what Jay Kempf from the email list said to do. Maybe KISS for a good solid track car?
Spend the money on a SCkit for the money you would spend on a 32V?

GlenL

Don't go crazy on the engine until you learn how to drive. Adding power sounds like fun, and it is, but getting around the track quickly is more handling and technique. Work on brakes and suspension. These can be added piece by piece without diving into a big engine project. And there's plenty of opportunity to spend all available time and money without taking the car out of service for months.

rixter

the car is essentially out of service and being converted, either way the engine has to come out for rebuild or replacement
the suspension will undergo a complete overhaul, big brake upgrade, etc while the motor is out
the tranny is out and have new syncros ready to go in
right now I'm leaning to staying with the 4.5l (enough power for me I'm pretty certain) I can put it on the stand and spend the winter and spring taking my time rebuilding it specifically to my own needs

Scott M.

Rixter;

You could always do a 5.0L bottom end and use your freshly done 79 heads. With the right set up that combo is good for a solid 280 rwhp.

But, start with a stock 16v, get to learn the handling and then "Go Big or Go Home".

Scott
p.s. thanks for the ebay link.

SharkSkin

Maybe I just haven't been looking very closely... but wouldn't a euro CIS induction system fit on the 32V head? I haven't really looked at them side-by-side... but that would allow you to keep your stock harness. It probably wouldn't make the same power as the S4 due to the lack of precise engine management, but it's bound to be an improvement over 16V and you wouldn't have all of the sensor issues...

drnick

i like scotts idea. and if you could find some euro heads from a 16v...

Jim bailey - 928 International

Rixster the most important thing is TRACK TIME and experience actually going to a track and observing what everyone else is doing. Learning about tires , tire pressure ,what tools to bring , whether to trailer the car or not , going through new driver training classes. How car classes are determined. As Glen points out in road racing HP is not as big a factor as one would think. If you have a good 4.5 RUN IT ! Then after a year or so think about what you need to improve the car after you can run consistent lap times with what you have. Lower horsepower requires that you be smooth and carry speed through the corners and yes smooth is fast ! The question can become do you want to drive or build ?and you only get to be a better driver by driving. Memorize this chant ... more horsepower, bigger brakes, better suspension ,less weight ,bigger tires ....every racer chants that predicated by" If only I had" .....the reality is most simply need more track time. It is also a problem if you build such a full on race car that the costs to run it for a weekend because of tire wear etc. becomes more than you feel you should be spending or the credit card company is willing to sponsor.

Mark

Jim Bailey wrote: "...smooth is fast"

AMEN!!

Drewster67

And sometimes slower is faster................

Get your seat time
Worry about brakes and suspension/tires ...first.
ALWAYS Think SAFETY
After a season, concentrate on upgrading your shark. more HP/Less Weight/Better Handling/Fuel Cell/Roll Bar etc ....... etc .....

Run a Street Car program before going into a race group.

Start with a Euro 16v or even a US 16v - The 16V because they are easier to work on - especially at the track.

My 9.28$

m kibort

The 5 liter bottom end is really a great option , as it is proved that the top end of the 2 valve set up is not far behind, and certainly easier to work on. (and less $$) 285 rear wheel out of my old US 5 liter with euro top end, and the Holbert 4v S4 runs 320ish. Im sure we could have found a cheap way to put down 20 more hp if i had spent any time on the intake or heads (mine were bone stock)
cams were the mid grade euro s cams (80-83) My intake system on the car was the US Ljet too!

so, as was said, spend time on having fun with the car and cookng the brakes for a while, then you can always get that engine pumped up with a 5 liter bottom end.
mk

DK

I started with the stock 4.5l Euro, and that was fun enough for some DEs. Then when started racing put in a US 4.7l with '84 EuroS cams, that was fun for a while too. Then put in complete '84 EuroS - which was getting really fun, and then I put the 5.0l hybrid on the '84 Euro top-end, and I gotta say it was way more hassle with piston notching etc. and wasn't any faster than the 4.7l EuroS.

If you are going to stick to normally aspirated 16v, get a complete EuroS motor and you will have fun for a couple of years, and then you will need to step up. I prefer '84-86 EFI rather than the CIS motors.

John..

I agree totally, the suspension and brakes and driving technique will be of much more value than another 100 HP. I've seen lots of pictures of wrecked Countach Lambos and Ferraris that were taken to track days.

My brother is still talking me into taking his new race car to driving school. Something about driving a totally overworked 72 Sonnett III is scaring me. This car runs 140+ MPH on the straights and weighs in at 1600-1800 lbs. Totally worked out 9,000 RPM V4 with like 13:1 compression. It used to run SCCA and was very competitive. I say, yes that sounds great, but what happens if we break it...everything is custom! I told him he should get a cheap VW Golf to start racing, but he has been in love with the Sonnett since he was 16.

I guess any car can be made fast if you have the desire.

John Veninger