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After my opening topic I did not post a lot of info about my project, so I decided to start a topic on this car and my progress. I am a rookie with working on cars but have had an interest in them for years, and you got to start somewhere. So why not be stupid and start with a 928? So here we are, I cleaned all the fuses, went over most ground points, 14 pin connector got a bit of a clean, checked some relays, basically enough to get it to try and start. A friendly guy called Wayne emailed me some plans to start, suggesting to not start the car (which has sat for a long time) before flushing the tank. This was great advice but unfortunately too late, since it had been attempted by the previous owner and myself before that. I did follow his advice to check the fuel output volume which was ok. So I found lots of rusty particles in the fuel system. Flushed the fuel line going to the fuel distributor, cleaned the "filter" thingy going into the FD, removed the 8 banjo bolts on top and gently took out and cleaned the tiny filters coming from the FD going to the injectors. Cleaned the hardlines from FD to injectors. Checked the resistors, checked for spark. In short enough to get the engine to give some sort of reaction, at first it did leak coolant which I thought to be from the water pump. Then the banjo bolt at the fuel pump leaked slightly more then before, so I addressed that (and failed, still slightly leaking). However now after starting it does sort of run (horribly), it's also leaking slush-oil at the front somewhere, garage filled with smoke and the engine is making a whistle noise plus some backfires I think. Dipstick image below, there is also way to much liquid in there. I'm guessing more than a non level car since it is on jacks should indicate. Am I looking at a failed headgasket here? Maybe also a vacuum leak? Any advice on what's next? I fear taking out the whole engine, I don't have the space and options for this right now.
pull the spark plugs and see what ones are the cleanest those will be the leaking HG
if it sounds like a misfire you could have wires swapped or a dead injector
I can't advise I'm afraid but just wanted to say great colour and model you have. First year Euro S is a special one. I hope you get her running healthy and happy soon!
CIS problems can be quite difficult to resolve, so I would not start there. I would do as much as possible to understand the basic condition of the motor. It looks like you may have water in your oil, though there could be some fuel also. The water can be from the radiator, not the head gaskets sometimes. Maybe compression and leakdown tests?
This is a Kjet car similar to mine. It sounds like you are not getting enough fuel while cranking. It should start almost instantly. The backfire sounds like a lean backfire as well. Start with the basics and just imagine this is just an ordinary car engine which it is. Check the plugs and see if they are all firing, one can be out and it's hard to tell with this engine they start and run so easy. This ancient mechanical fuel injection system also loves to run a bit rich and there is effectively an extra fuel injector that dumps fuel into the plenum for cold starts. Make sure that is working. Check that you have all the vacuum lines connected. There are quite a few. One of these might be the whistling sound and might be why it sounds lean.
I would suggest before you drop a heap of dollars overhauling the Kjet system you consider converting to a full aftermarket EFI system. The car will perform like a modern car and probably be cheaper.
CIS problems can be quite difficult to resolve, so I would not start there. I would do as much as possible to understand the basic condition of the motor. It looks like you may have water in your oil, though there could be some fuel also. The water can be from the radiator, not the head gaskets sometimes. Maybe compression and leakdown tests?
How does that happen, water from the radiator in the oil? I don't quite follow. It was leaking some coolant in my earlier tests, somewhere in the front of the engine. I assumed the water pump/WPgasket or something. The fluid level is next to nothing, but there could still be some in the radiator and piping I think. I have ordered a compression tester set, will try that soon.
This is a Kjet car similar to mine. It sounds like you are not getting enough fuel while cranking. It should start almost instantly. The backfire sounds like a lean backfire as well. Start with the basics and just imagine this is just an ordinary car engine which it is. Check the plugs and see if they are all firing, one can be out and it's hard to tell with this engine they start and run so easy. This ancient mechanical fuel injection system also loves to run a bit rich and there is effectively an extra fuel injector that dumps fuel into the plenum for cold starts. Make sure that is working. Check that you have all the vacuum lines connected. There are quite a few. One of these might be the whistling sound and might be why it sounds lean.
I would suggest before you drop a heap of dollars overhauling the Kjet system you consider converting to a full aftermarket EFI system. The car will perform like a modern car and probably be cheaper. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yucoh5_4aAo
It absolutely has or has had fuel issues, so your reply makes sense to me. Checking the injectors is also on my list. I have tested one plug to see if it the car had spark but not all off them, so when I do compression test I might as well look into that since I have to take the plugs out anyway. Will also see if I can do a smoke test or something for vacuum leaks, if the compression test turns out ok. Visually I did not see any vacuum line issues but that doesn't mean there isn't any. Next I could indeed check the cold start injector and warm up regulator. EFI might indeed be cheaper on the long run but I try to keep it reasonably in line with original. I could however short cut pricewise by doing stuff like a fuel distributor rebuild myself if needed, a complete kit is about 100 euro.
The radiator has an oil cooler. If the cooler is broken water migrates in the oil!
Originally Posted by TheFrunk
How does that happen, water from the radiator in the oil? I don't quite follow. It was leaking some coolant in my earlier tests, somewhere in the front of the engine. I assumed the water pump/WPgasket or something. The fluid level is next to nothing, but there could still be some in the radiator and piping I think. I have ordered a compression tester set, will try that soon.
This is a Kjet car similar to mine. It sounds like you are not getting enough fuel while cranking. It should start almost instantly. The backfire sounds like a lean backfire as well. Start with the basics and just imagine this is just an ordinary car engine which it is. Check the plugs and see if they are all firing, one can be out and it's hard to tell with this engine they start and run so easy. This ancient mechanical fuel injection system also loves to run a bit rich and there is effectively an extra fuel injector that dumps fuel into the plenum for cold starts. Make sure that is working. Check that you have all the vacuum lines connected. There are quite a few. One of these might be the whistling sound and might be why it sounds lean.
I would suggest before you drop a heap of dollars overhauling the Kjet system you consider converting to a full aftermarket EFI system. The car will perform like a modern car and probably be cheaper. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yucoh5_4aAo
I’ve seen people on here try to switch to electronic fuel injection and have terrible problems. Doing that conversion is not simple or cheap.
The injectors are very basic and unlikely to be a problem. They are nothing like electronic fuel injectors, you will be surprised how simple they are, more like taps and it will be obvious why these cars are so heavy on fuel. There are several vacuum lines under the intake plenum. You might need a diagram to trace them all. Use a basic timing light to check each spark plug lead to see if they are firing. The smoke test might work. On my race car [supercharged Fiat] I used a shop vacuum cleaner to blow air through the throttle body and sprayed soapy water at the usual spots and found probably a dozen leaks! On your 928 you could probably do similar using the brake booster attachment point on the plenum. Try the smoke first to see if it's not the brake booster that is the leak.
I’ve seen people on here try to switch to electronic fuel injection and have terrible problems. Doing that conversion is not simple or cheap.
correct , i also think a EFI conversion is above the skill for the most DIY's ... and not cheap counting all the needed parts , dyno hours etc.
I may perhaps not achieve that last HP out of it compared EFI , but my Weber conversion works perfect. That is simple old school tech , "cheap" compared EFI or new "CIS" parts.
On the rally car i have 4 Weber IDA48 , on the ( running ) spare engine i test fitted 4 Weber IDF44. Those would fit under the hood without the need for a scoop.
Yes, tuning AFR is playing with jets instead of a PC , but that's part of the fun ! Ignition stays oem , just play with weights & springs ...and dial in advance.
All "fuel" parts can be deleted , we only need a low pressure fuel pump , filter/pressure regulator. Simple as that.
There are plenty of 928s and 944s running Megasquirt ECU's with no problem because it is cheap and easy. I used a Microsquirt which is limited to batch fire and wasted spark but still more advanced than the ECU's the 928GTS used! My total installation would have been cheaper than 4 new Webers. Webers are fine and sound good and the fueling would be good occasionally separated by a series of flat spots. Also, there is no adjustment for different altitudes. There are several threads on Rennlist for Megasquirts and Microsquirts. Here is one https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...onversion.html
No need for a dyno unless you feel the need. I used the auto tune to set the fuel maps and on my race car which also has a Microsquirt I just flog it about the circuit and tune that way.
The major improvement with EFI is losing the distributor. You have probably heard the saying all the horsepower is in the ignition! The 928 really responds to a good ignition map and it's the ignition that greatly improves the drivability and better fuel economy. The 928 is easy to convert because the early Golf's and Mercedes from the same period used the same injector screw in bases. I use Audi 1.8TT injectors and Ford coil packs but the Golf coil packs are widely used.
In Australia, finding a dyno that will tune carburettors is getting very hard!
There are plenty of 928s and 944s running Megasquirt ECU's with no problem because it is cheap and easy. I used a Microsquirt which is limited to batch fire and wasted spark but still more advanced than the ECU's the 928GTS used! My total installation would have been cheaper than 4 new Webers. Webers are fine and sound good and the fueling would be good occasionally separated by a series of flat spots. Also, there is no adjustment for different altitudes. There are several threads on Rennlist for Megasquirts and Microsquirts. Here is one https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...onversion.html
No need for a dyno unless you feel the need. I used the auto tune to set the fuel maps and on my race car which also has a Microsquirt I just flog it about the circuit and tune that way.
The major improvement with EFI is losing the distributor. You have probably heard the saying all the horsepower is in the ignition! The 928 really responds to a good ignition map and it's the ignition that greatly improves the drivability and better fuel economy. The 928 is easy to convert because the early Golf's and Mercedes from the same period used the same injector screw in bases. I use Audi 1.8TT injectors and Ford coil packs but the Golf coil packs are widely used.
In Australia, finding a dyno that will tune carburettors is getting very hard!
cheaper than 4 webers ? i assume you started with a already EFI engine , not a CIS ?
No need for a dyno ? you can find a good mapping but do not know it's performance ? Ok, racing a circuit with a self learning system will probably do it , but here on the street it wouldn't take long for one's driving license.
When we used 5the gear to have the 1:1 on the dyno , we almost reached 300 km/h.... now we do it in 4 .
cheaper than 4 webers ? i assume you started with a already EFI engine , not a CIS ?
No need for a dyno ? you can find a good mapping but do not know it's performance ? Ok, racing a circuit with a self learning system will probably do it , but here on the street it wouldn't take long for one's driving license.
When we used 5the gear to have the 1:1 on the dyno , we almost reached 300 km/h.... now we do it in 4 .
The engine was a Kjet, same as the original posters engine. The mechanical fuel system is clearly visible in the video. I sold my fuel injection pump assembly on which recouped some of the cost and made space for the coil packs. Probably cost just under $2000AUD. Would have been a lot cheaper if I did not have to pay the high cost of postage from the USA for the ECU. The sensors and throttle body came off local GM vehicles.
A little update on my project. I tested the pressure on each cylinder and found one to be 6/6.5 ish bar, the rest between 8 and 10. Or 90/95 and 115 - 145 psi for the imperial people. At first tests I got some weird numbers (one even got up to 16 bar) and the rest was dropping. So did a second run where after a test I would hook up the battery charger whilst I was working the steps to the second cylinder etc. Also added a few drops of oil in the spark plug hole each time, so hopefully these results are a bit more meaningful. What do you guys think of those numbers? Unfortunately I also found some glitter in the oil coming from the spark plugs. I'm in trouble am I not?
07-03-2024, 07:45 AM
My 1980 Euro 928S
