Oil Pan gasket - things your mama never told you!
01-18-2008, 10:49 AM
#31
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I think it is worth going all the way and dropping the pan to clean everything. It is an item that may not need service for another 20 years, and most people need new motor mounts as well.
I was able to do the whole mm/pan gasket job in 8 hours while cleaning everything too. If you are already up on a lift, I would say go all the way while you can. I also wouldn't want a cut gasket down there. I like to do stuff so that I can forget about it and move on to other areas.
p.s. I used Carl's stud kit on my car and give it thumbs up. No nuts loosening there!
I was able to do the whole mm/pan gasket job in 8 hours while cleaning everything too. If you are already up on a lift, I would say go all the way while you can. I also wouldn't want a cut gasket down there. I like to do stuff so that I can forget about it and move on to other areas.
p.s. I used Carl's stud kit on my car and give it thumbs up. No nuts loosening there!
01-18-2008, 03:38 PM
#32
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I am thinking of doing this job with out dropping the cross frame member. From what everyone said, dropping it is a long and hard job. The motor mount was done by the PO and he is not sure about the steering rack bushing. I tighten some of the 10mm bolt on the oil pan that I can get to. It was very loose but it still leaks. So you think I can do this gasket job without cutting it or dropping the cross frame?
.... an old thread from June 2004 ...
Well, to update 3.5 years later, the pan is still tight and dry on the subject car, despite the air of disapproval.
The caveats:
- the new & improved silicon gasket was not on the market at that time, so the cork: neoprene composite was the only synthetic alternative to organically pure cork.
- the cut & paste approach was specifically for a pre '83 car that has the conglomerate of screens, etc inside the pan vs the newer style oil pickup.
- replacement of the early style solid mounts was not required.
- the original gasket went in dry, so came out without a wimper: safely cleaning both flange faces in place was a snap by simply lowering the pan slightly.
Dismay at cutting a gasket
- get a grip .... this is a zero pressure service. Besides, on trials with this commonly available gasket material, stress to yield trials on cut surfaces invariably saw failure at places other than the glued cut.This is all academic if one has the >'83 style oil pickup, for it is a breeze to slide the gasket under the pickup .... cannot be done on the earlier cars.
Slide ahead to today - I would prefer to use the silicon gasket too .... and if MM's are in the equation, drop everything underneath; however, jthwan22 posed the question from the perspective of already having had the MM job complete. To then add a pan gasket, it would be a small trick to do so by loosening the MM's, and leaving the X-bar in place. As to cutting, depends on the type of oil pickup in the pan.
01-18-2008, 03:45 PM
#33
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Slide ahead to today - I would prefer to use the silicon gasket too
with what glue?
Marton
01-18-2008, 05:17 PM
#34
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01-18-2008, 05:44 PM
#35
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as academic as this hypothetical situation may be
Marton
01-18-2008, 07:33 PM
#36
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Marton--
Mark a few of the bolts and decide next time if the bolts are loosening or the gasket is shrinking. I like the idea of using studs into the girdle with a little threadlocker, then using split lockwashers (for cork or cork/neoprene gaskets that shrink) or nylok-style locking nuts for the silicone gasket. Next time my sump comes off it will get nyloks and the silocone gasket. Just did mine a few years ago now, prior to the silicone gasket craze, so it might be just a few more years before I'm in there again. In the meanwhile, the split lockwashers are doing the trick nicely, both at keeping the gasket snug and preventing the bolts from getting loose.
Mark a few of the bolts and decide next time if the bolts are loosening or the gasket is shrinking. I like the idea of using studs into the girdle with a little threadlocker, then using split lockwashers (for cork or cork/neoprene gaskets that shrink) or nylok-style locking nuts for the silicone gasket. Next time my sump comes off it will get nyloks and the silocone gasket. Just did mine a few years ago now, prior to the silicone gasket craze, so it might be just a few more years before I'm in there again. In the meanwhile, the split lockwashers are doing the trick nicely, both at keeping the gasket snug and preventing the bolts from getting loose.
01-19-2008, 01:06 PM
#37
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dr bob
All good ideas
about
Mine too
Did not get around too tightening the sump bolts today.
Plan was to install the new clutch & brake M/Cs & a new flexible hose on the line to the slave cylinder.
Never did the brake M/C, the clutch M/C & the hose took me 3.5 hours to install. No idea why, obviously I was slow but I did not run into any special snags. 3 pipe unions & 2 bolts; that is over half hour each!! Had a little problem with the union to the clutch M/C; it did not line up quite right with the new M/C so I had to take the pipe off and bend it just a few degrees - I was worried about cross threading it if it was not lined up exactly.
Marton
All good ideas
about
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Next time my sump comes off it will get nyloks and the silicone gasket.
Did not get around too tightening the sump bolts today.
Plan was to install the new clutch & brake M/Cs & a new flexible hose on the line to the slave cylinder.
Never did the brake M/C, the clutch M/C & the hose took me 3.5 hours to install. No idea why, obviously I was slow but I did not run into any special snags. 3 pipe unions & 2 bolts; that is over half hour each!! Had a little problem with the union to the clutch M/C; it did not line up quite right with the new M/C so I had to take the pipe off and bend it just a few degrees - I was worried about cross threading it if it was not lined up exactly.
Marton
01-19-2008, 02:09 PM
#38
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In that case, use GE 'Black' sealer - the Transmission shops and track guys here use that on differential covers and transmission pans with great success: let it set up slightly prior to final tightening. I've never had a failure using it.
01-28-2008, 11:10 PM
#39
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Give your old motor mounts the finger test (between the safety hooks on the brackets) to test the PO's claim about mount replacement.
While it may be possible to replace the sump gasket without dropping the crossmember, it's going to be a CHORE. It's a chore getting all the old gasket off the block and sump. It's a chore making sure that NONE of the old gasket material drops into the sump, where there's a risk of plugging oil pickup screen. And it's a chore fishing the new gasket into the sump, under and around the oil pump pickup, and into place on top of the sump before installation back to the block. It's a chore getting to all the sump bolts with the crossmember still in place. It's a chore getting everything clean under there before you start so crud doesn't get into the sump.
The amount of work involved is the same, except that to drop the crossmember you need to undo the steering shaft from the wheel, and the suspension bolts that hold the lower suspension arms to it. You'll lower the rack after removing the hose connections, and you'll support the motor from the top wheile the crossmember is unbolted from the bottom. To get the sump off, you'll drain the oil, remove the filter, the starter motor and wiring, plus the clutch slave and its plumbing if you were suckered in to buying a manual trans car. Then there are over 11 little bolts that hold the sump to the block. Six of those bolts are very easy to remove, the rest with varying degrees of difficulty, identified by the various languages used by folks removing them. Hint-- take the hardest bolts out first so the sump stays up nice and high while you get your wrenches and fingers into the smaller spaces.
While many will tell you that you won't need an alignment after dropping the crossmember and the rack, I'm here suggesting that you have it done when you get it all together. Things moved around on mine just enough to be noticeable after the job. Now, after spending a bit of DIY time getting the alignmnet dialed in perfectly, it's easy to see how just the slightest amount of movement in any component under there would have an effect on alignment.
Oh, and the person who came up with the idea of using plastic cable ties to hold the gasket to the sump deserves a medal. GREAT idea! Get things up into place with a lot of the bolts just started, trim the plastic ties amd remove the evidence, and then install and snug the rest of the bolts. Way too easy that way.
While it may be possible to replace the sump gasket without dropping the crossmember, it's going to be a CHORE. It's a chore getting all the old gasket off the block and sump. It's a chore making sure that NONE of the old gasket material drops into the sump, where there's a risk of plugging oil pickup screen. And it's a chore fishing the new gasket into the sump, under and around the oil pump pickup, and into place on top of the sump before installation back to the block. It's a chore getting to all the sump bolts with the crossmember still in place. It's a chore getting everything clean under there before you start so crud doesn't get into the sump.
The amount of work involved is the same, except that to drop the crossmember you need to undo the steering shaft from the wheel, and the suspension bolts that hold the lower suspension arms to it. You'll lower the rack after removing the hose connections, and you'll support the motor from the top wheile the crossmember is unbolted from the bottom. To get the sump off, you'll drain the oil, remove the filter, the starter motor and wiring, plus the clutch slave and its plumbing if you were suckered in to buying a manual trans car. Then there are over 11 little bolts that hold the sump to the block. Six of those bolts are very easy to remove, the rest with varying degrees of difficulty, identified by the various languages used by folks removing them. Hint-- take the hardest bolts out first so the sump stays up nice and high while you get your wrenches and fingers into the smaller spaces.
While many will tell you that you won't need an alignment after dropping the crossmember and the rack, I'm here suggesting that you have it done when you get it all together. Things moved around on mine just enough to be noticeable after the job. Now, after spending a bit of DIY time getting the alignmnet dialed in perfectly, it's easy to see how just the slightest amount of movement in any component under there would have an effect on alignment.
Oh, and the person who came up with the idea of using plastic cable ties to hold the gasket to the sump deserves a medal. GREAT idea! Get things up into place with a lot of the bolts just started, trim the plastic ties amd remove the evidence, and then install and snug the rest of the bolts. Way too easy that way.
02-06-2008, 03:28 PM
#40
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Marton--
Mark a few of the bolts and decide next time if the bolts are loosening or the gasket is shrinking. I like the idea of using studs into the girdle with a little threadlocker, then using split lockwashers (for cork or cork/neoprene gaskets that shrink) or nylok-style locking nuts for the silicone gasket. Next time my sump comes off it will get nyloks and the silocone gasket. Just did mine a few years ago now, prior to the silicone gasket craze, so it might be just a few more years before I'm in there again. In the meanwhile, the split lockwashers are doing the trick nicely, both at keeping the gasket snug and preventing the bolts from getting loose.
Mark a few of the bolts and decide next time if the bolts are loosening or the gasket is shrinking. I like the idea of using studs into the girdle with a little threadlocker, then using split lockwashers (for cork or cork/neoprene gaskets that shrink) or nylok-style locking nuts for the silicone gasket. Next time my sump comes off it will get nyloks and the silocone gasket. Just did mine a few years ago now, prior to the silicone gasket craze, so it might be just a few more years before I'm in there again. In the meanwhile, the split lockwashers are doing the trick nicely, both at keeping the gasket snug and preventing the bolts from getting loose.
