gosbollen

Hi

I just finished my timing-belt service with help from Pirtle's write-up and the shop-manuals.

This is what I've changed:

all the belts
air/fuel/oil/smog-filter
waterpump
oil in.. don't know the word but it's that thingy between the back-wheels
motoroil (Castrol Magnatec 5w/40)
cooling water (50/50 antifreeze/distilled water)

And a complete rebuild of the tensioner.

Transmission oil was changed not long ago.

Now there is a ticking noise coming from the top right side of the block (facing the car from front.)
I can actually feel it on the plastic cover...

I found some info about it may being the lifters.
Could it be that my oil change is the reason for this?

gosbollen

Btw, the ticking is still there even when the motor has reached temperature.
And since I am afraid to drive it, I've only let it run att idle. Sounds is still there when I raise RPM too.

SteveG

Gosbollen: Well, if as you say you can feel it, this may not be the case, but try moving to the other side of the car. There are several discussions on "ticking" I swore it came from a lifter at cylinder 8. I moved to front center and it seemed to originate in the front, then I moved to passenger (US) side and it moved there. So now I believe what I heard was the injectors. Maybe as Jim suggests a stethoscope would help.

ErnestSw

The first thing you should do is remove the belt covers and see whether the ticking is caused by one of them. If it's not you'll probably be able to hear it better.
That "thingie" is the differential.

gosbollen

Thanks for replying.

I can really feel the ticking when I have my hand on the plastic cover on top of the motor, but not on the belt covers, so I'm almost vertain that it originates from there.

There is probably some ticking on the other side too, but the right side (facing front of car) is the loudest.

I just can't think of what may have caused this other than the new motor oil.

Now it seems like I'm trying to convince myself

I will try to get my hand on a stetoscope. But first off, I will buy some oil treatment (or what it's called) and try that way.

Again, thanks for your answers.

SharkSkin

Might be a good idea to check your timing marks before you run it any more.

Garth S

A long screwdriver, or a length of hose held against your ear is a good 'stethoscope' to listen to valves/injectors/bearings ....
Sometimes, a hydraulic lifter will not readily pump up, and the car needs to be driven a bit before it repressurizes (they can make an awful noise). The mechanic's cheapie stethoscope should help locate the noise.

Nicole

Did you switch from fossil oil to synthetic oil? I have heard that this sometimes causes lifter noise.

gosbollen

I have been very thorough with the timing marks. I set the tension with Kempf's tool, turned the engine around about 4 times (4*2 turns of course) and rechecked the tension and markings. Is it possible that the belt may have jumped after i started the car? i haven't checked the markings after startup.

Nicole: I have no clue which kind of oil there has been before. I did found a sticker on the air filter however, which stated that the car had been run on fully synthetic oil. I gladly hoped that the PO's kept going with synthetic but that is not certain.

I would gladly try with another oil but I would first like to try with "top oil" or what you call it. Something like Lucas oil treatment.

It would be sad to drain 130$ of oil. But if I have to I have to.

Garth S

Gosbollen,
I'm confident you have been very thorough in setting and locking in the cam timing as you described the procedure followed: it is highly unlikely the TB jumped a tooth.
DO NOT DUMP your $130 syn oil charge . Synthetic oil has far superior mobility properties than conventional oils, and will last for at least a year's driving ( see Doug Hillary's excellent reports, as another view).
When I restarted my '88 S4 following an identical procedure , with all fluids drained for several days, the start-up valve clatter was attention grabbing!!! It quickly subsided, and the remaining 'ticking' dissapeared after a short drive - and has not reappeared.I used a 5W-50 synthetic.
To be sure the check valves in the heads were cleaned (that retain oil pressure to the lifters), as well as the orfices in the lifters, I later added a liter of Rislone( Some will use ATF or Kerosene to the same effect). Insurance? - possibly, but I'm not sure - as I did it long after the noise dissapeared.
BTW, UKKid (paul) just noted in today's posts that the tensioner boot clamp can also cause a "noise" against the front cover if the clamp is improperly positioned.

John Pirtle

Twice you said, "the plastic cover on top of the motor." Are you talking about the fuel rail cover? There are two of these long black plastic covers on each side of the intake. The fuel injectors are known to "click". In fact those covers hold insulation around the fuel rails (which usually disintegrates).

You might remove the covers and listen again for the noise. You'll be able to hold a screwdriver against each injector to feel the click. If that's the source of the noise try running a couple of bottles of Techron fuel cleaner. But it may be you're due to have the injectors serviced.

Just another idea - best of luck!

John Pirtle
87 a/t 163k
http://members.rennlist.com/pirtle

gosbollen

Garth: I will try using ATF-oil and then change to a thicker oil. I have now driven the car for about 1000km and the ticking is still there. I'm sure it isn't the bootclamp however.

John: Yes, it is the fuel rail cover. I do have slight problems finding the right words for things
I will also try injector cleaner. But the thing is the sound wasn't there before my timing belt service. I can't think of anything else being the culprit but the new 5w/40 oil..
Thank you for documenting your own timing belt change btw. I think it has helped alot of people.

For those of you interested, and with a FTP client, I've documented my own service on video. In the end of the film (19min) you can hear the sound I'm talking about.
Don't mind the other noises from the motor, it sounds ok now apart from the ticking.


Adress: Gosbollen.mine.nu
port: 2555
login: 928s4
pass:928s4

This server will be down sometimes; my better half dislikes the computer cooling fans. Wonder why.. there's only 7 of them :O

gosbollen

Oh.
The movie is 100mb and encoded with DivX (click me)

Garth S

Gosbollen,
John reacted correctly to your use of 'plastic covers' - ( I incorrectly assumed you meant the valve covers, for that's the sort of word shift I'm guilty of when going to French, for instance )
If you have located the noise at the fuel rail, then it is an injector noise - not a lifter noise; therefore, this ticking is absolutely not related to engine oil.
A fuel injector can start ticking at any time for a variety of reasons - perhaps it was ticking previously, and can now be heard after replacing noisy tensioner bearings, etc.
If performance is good, then continue with the fuel injector cleaner in the fuel tank: The next step would be a cleaning of the injectors /rails at a garage ('Motor-vac' type of service). If it is localized at one injector, then as a last resort, it can be replaced.

gosbollen

Thanks for replying Garth.

I don't blame you for not understanding my sometimes horrendous English

I will buy injector cleaner tomorrow and try with that. I took some recordings before I bought the car and I can not hear the sound in those.
And I don't beleive there is any change in performance.

I have made a smaller film of the first startup that can be downloaded here:

Server in Sweden (right click and Save as..)

My Rennlist member web site (right click and Save as..)

It's an mpg and the file size is 6mb.