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We run each engine on a test stand for about 30 minutes, with break-in oil.
We change the oil filter after this and install the engine into the vehicle.
We top off the oil, after running the engine in the chassis. (We loose some oil from the oil cooler on the test stand and then filling the oil cooler in the chassis, but since we "fill" oil filters, there isn't much oil lost from changing the filter.)
We leave the break-in oil in the engines for about 100 miles.
I do not expect to need to add any oil, during this period.....I'd be concerned, if we did.
We then change the filter and the oil to the "normal" oil. I always send a quart of the oil that we use, with the car, but I don't expect the client to need to add this quart before the "first" oil change. (3,000 to 7,500 miles, completely depending on what the client's dad did.)
At that point, we are running the engines to their maximum rpm's quite often and doing our final tuning.
That is very high oil consumption - can you see blue smoke coming out the exhaust?
I think at this point you need to drive it HARD hoping you can get the rings to seal. Do a Google search on engine break-in, and you'll find that people run them hard so as to not glaze the cylinders which causes the rings to not seat/seal.
Today I did a 50 miles trip : No visible oil consumption!!!
After discussing with a specialist he explain me that first time filling an empty reworked engine, more oil fit in it compared to a regular oil change!
🤗
As I said I did not verified how much oil was remaining in the container I emptied : between 1 and 2 quarts to refill correctly the engine + the volume of 2 oil filter. Could explain why I had to put so much oil in it.
I had the same issue with the coolant where I had to put more than for a regular change but here I was expecting that so I haven’t been surprised …
I don’t know why I did not realized for oil… maybe too much pressure in my mind during this critical step…
cheers!
We run each engine on a test stand for about 30 minutes, with break-in oil.
We change the oil filter after this and install the engine into the vehicle.
We top off the oil, after running the engine in the chassis. (We loose some oil from the oil cooler on the test stand and then filling the oil cooler in the chassis, but since we "fill" oil filters, there isn't much oil lost from changing the filter.)
We leave the break-in oil in the engines for about 100 miles.
I do not expect to need to add any oil, during this period.....I'd be concerned, if we did.
We then change the filter and the oil to the "normal" oil. I always send a quart of the oil that we use, with the car, but I don't expect the client to need to add this quart before the "first" oil change. (3,000 to 7,500 miles, completely depending on what the client's dad did.)
At that point, we are running the engines to their maximum rpm's quite often and doing our final tuning.
Today I did a 50 miles trip : No visible oil consumption!!!
After discussing with a specialist he explain me that first time filling an empty reworked engine, more oil fit in it compared to a regular oil change!
🤗
As I said I did not verified how much oil was remaining in the container I emptied : between 1 and 2 quarts to refill correctly the engine + the volume of 2 oil filter. Could explain why I had to put so much oil in it.
I had the same issue with the coolant where I had to put more than for a regular change but here I was expecting that so I haven’t been surprised …
I don’t know why I did not realized for oil… maybe too much pressure in my mind during this critical step…
cheers!
Raphael,
Motor oil of the 20W50 kind sticks like "sh*t to a wet blanket" and thus why when an engine is oiled up it can stay like that for a very long time without any detrimental effects thus during a normal oil change there will be an increment of oil stuck in the engine that will not come out and why it is better to drain the stuff whilst the oil is still at operating temperature. Even then I do not know how much oil will remain in the crank and on the oil wetted surfaces of everything but if someone told me it was a litre I would not argue with them.
Bonjour,
I did not provided any news because I was worry… things went so well that I was looking for issues…
Greg, your break in plan is so far away from what people practice here… so I choose something… in between:
- changed the oil filter after the first 25 minutes at 1500-3000RPM in the garage, see the few first minutes of the video,
- I drive the car smoothly, RPM below 4500RPM for 500 km (about 300 miles), then I changed oil and oil filter. As I found 3 small aluminum shaving, I decided to stay reasonable…
- I drive 200 more miles with the new oil (Amsoil 15w50 dominator) not exceeding 4000RPM,
- at 500 miles, I changed oil filter. I open it and nothing in it! Ouf!!!
- now I’m trying 5000 RPM, I will wait 1000 miles to go over 5000 RPM.
I was worry also about cooling. At 100km, I get an overheating condition at idle/low speed hot weather… the red light come on while stopping the car in the garage… after diagnostic, one fan was not turning and fuse #29 was melted in the fuse panel… ouf…
since then, I developed a psychose about cooling… finding the car running too hot…
I changed the radiator resistor and verified with a borescope that I put the head gasket right : the proof : passenger side, intake side : a small hole and not a big one : ouf!
For the cooling performance, maybe the shroud is not the best solution. I should have removed the flaps as the bottom one looks to block airflow at the bottom of the radiator. If on track I get too hot I will remove it.
But before that I put a switch on the NTC wire of the cooling ecu in order to force high speed of the fans. It allow significantly more cooling. I will try that on track.
So, so far, so good!!! As of today, 900 km : pure happiness, the engine rev 5000rpm so nicely. The sound is so great… looking forward measuring performances…
Bonjour,
The car is working so great. Rev to 5000RPM is pure happiness! The sound is very different than before and so great. Accelerations at low RPM looks to be better than before. Maybe the camshafts effect?
Only issue : oil leaks that started few hundreds km ago ... as for the cork oil pan gasket issue... I have few drops that come back on a regular basis through the hole of the clutch lower housing... I'm afraid the rear crankshaft seal spring was not sitting correctly when I installed it... I have to confirm that. And if confirmed, I hope the leak will remain stable so it could wait this winter to replaced it...
It was too good to be true!!! now the situation looks more normal!!!!
Cheers,
Raphaël
As I understand one has to be very careful with that seal às the one supplied in gasket sets is non too clever. I had the same problem 17 years ago and even though I supplied the gasket set the main agents here replaced the seal at material cost with a Porsche supplied seal and no problems to date with that.
In my case the leak was not acceptable -you may be more fortunate but generally speaking leaking lip seals do not get better as they age .
Bonjour,
I hope the leak trough the clutch housing hole will stay reasonable. So far so good. One month of pure happiness... driving the 928 EVERYDAY as much as possible!!! And going everyday more and more at higher RPM.
The only difficult thing after the cooling issue I face was the sharktuning... It took time for me to admit that I had to had a lot more fuel on the map... Now with more fuel the engine is working great. Fuel consumption is at least 10% more than before. I hope performance will be proportional. Could be. The engine looks to pull stronger... But feeling is not a reliable sensor. Looking forward going to max RPM in order to check.
I have 1250 miles since first run up!
I'm doing 6000RPM now.
I have a track day cession on "Le Castellet" ex formula 1 track on 1rst September. 2 cessions or 20 minutes. The plan is to reach 6500RPM or 6800RPM there for the first time! I should be at 1500 miles at that period. I will stay reasonable and focus only on engine behaviour instead or trying to follow others.
Breaking the engine the way it will be driven!!!! I'm a fan too!!!
S4 are limited to 6500RPM but GT have the rev limiter set to 6800RPM. Moving parts in M28.41 and M28.47 engine are the same if I'm correct, except for camshafts.
My plan is to set up the rev limiter to 6800RPM. Not in the goal to rev more. But I'm quite sure that if I set the rev limiter to 6800RPM, with the stock red zone, I will not hit the rev limiter when I go max RPM on gear #2. I hit the rev limiter too often on gear#2 but almost never on gears#3. I try as much as I can not to stay at high RPM to avoid too much oil going up in the heads.
After this cession, I will check again oil filter and take my first compression values.
Your feed back will be appreciated, in particular I you think I'm doing something wrong.
Again, thank you for your help. Even if tomorrow the engine blow, this month was so important for me. I will never forget this happiness retrieving this awesome car. Everything has a end.This year has been so hard. So I appreciated each km/mile I did this month.
For the cooling issue, I think the car is running good. I think the issue is the cooling control unit that is not running the fan at high enough speed because when I force the fans max speed, cooling is significantly improved. Resistance in the radiator has been changed and verified to be identical to the former one. Another thing could be the shroud not to be so efficient if the front belly pan is not installed. Maybe the car run better without the shroud if the first belly pan is missing? I will remove the bottom flap. I'm convinced it avoid air cooling the bottom of the radiator. I will provide more feedback after more testing.
The fan programing is such that the fans do not max out until the coolant return temperature hits 95C. Assuming the radiator takes out 8C the temperature leaving the water bridge will be about 103C or a few needle's width past the last white line.
The high temp alarm is something like 108C as I recall..
Bonjour Fred,
Yes, before engine rework, the red light use to come on significantly over the last white mark.
But When one fan fail and the car overheated at idle, I’m quite sure the red light come on with the needle on the last white mark.
It is why I developed this psychose when the needle arrive too close to the last white mark.
If I consider your description, and the car looks to behave that way too, I’m inventing an issue!
I prefer that!!!
When the needle goes close to the last white mark, the Sharktuner indicate something like 98 degrees and the sender is also on the bridge. So it is consistent with your description.
It looks like my dash sender is too sensitive or I did not observed correctly when the red light come on. When the light come one I’m quite sure the alarm did not when on.
when I tested my dash senders in water, sometimes the switch did not close immediately and a resistance show up before the switch closes. Maybe the red light come on because a resistance show up but temperature was not enough to reach the switch on temperature?
I will continue to observe.
Anyway, on track, letting max speed all the time, it could not hurt!!!
Engine is working good! It is as generous as before. Oil consumption is less than before rework.
So great to brink back a 928 on track and on the road. It is so rare to cross one here now days!
Engine temperature stay below the last white mark with the fans at max speed all time.
However I have a severe fuel consumption and not as HP than before. I think I have to rig better the camshafts.
When I rig them I was +4 on bank (1-4) and +2 on bank (5-8) with Porken tool in order to get the same lift at intake valve on cylinders #1 and 6 (1,2mm).
With belt stretched both bank should be +2.
I understand reading some post here that maybe setting them at -2 could be better : better mileage, more HP at high RPM and not that much loss of torque.
The company that reworked the camshafts recommended a lift of 1mm TDC for intake and 0,5 for exhaust.
But on the S4 I can only set the exhaust 0,2mm below the intake!
So rigging them -2 should bring both of them in between recommended spec.
I think I will try that.
Don't hesitate if you have better idea!
Cheers,
Raphaël
Bonjour Fred,
Yes, before engine rework, the red light use to come on significantly over the last white mark.
But When one fan fail and the car overheated at idle, I’m quite sure the red light come on with the needle on the last white mark.
It is why I developed this psychose when the needle arrive too close to the last white mark.
If I consider your description, and the car looks to behave that way too, I’m inventing an issue!
I prefer that!!!
When the needle goes close to the last white mark, the Sharktuner indicate something like 98 degrees and the sender is also on the bridge. So it is consistent with your description.
It looks like my dash sender is too sensitive or I did not observed correctly when the red light come on. When the light come one I’m quite sure the alarm did not when on.
when I tested my dash senders in water, sometimes the switch did not close immediately and a resistance show up before the switch closes. Maybe the red light come on because a resistance show up but temperature was not enough to reach the switch on temperature?
I will continue to observe.
Anyway, on track, letting max speed all the time, it could not hurt!!!
Thank you for your feedback,
Cheers,
Raphael
I had a bad sender, where the red light came on WELL before the spec value for it.
Replaced it...the needle will be VERY high up close to or in the red for the light to come on.
With a stretched belt the cams should be a zero on 5/8 bank and minus 2 on 1/4 bank. As I am aware that is a constant for S4, GT and GTS cam sets using the 32VR kit and I would think it should be the same for your cams but not 100% certain on that. Cam timing using a new belt should be zero on both banks as I recall. Either way you will likely not feel the very small difference it makes over that range of settings.
The cam timing range you are intimating should not impact fuel consumption. Retarding cam timing favours top end a little bit and advancing them favours low down torque- no free lunches as it were. Sounds to me as though you having too much fun!
07-24-2023, 08:13 PM
