mark kibort

Just was at CT automotive to fix scots awful ride hight. (Kim Crumb springs and shock kit on all 4 corners) we had the adjusters all the way down on all 4 corners and the car looked like it was doing a wheelie, with 2 finger spacing off the fender in front, and right at the top of the tire in the rear.
(same issue as I had on my ole 79 racer, that wasnt quite as bad, maybe 1" lower)

anway, we CUT the springs on the car and it worked great. took one turn out of the front springs by using an air grinder cutting wheel on the one turn coil from the bottom. then, of course, it wont come out, as it needs to be cut again to removed it. we just pull out the piece, move the purch into position and it is done!!! same thing on the rear, but we removed a little more as the shock has about 2" adjustment up, so we went further up the spring by 1 1/2 coils. if I did it again, i would take only one off the rear, as when you take 1.5 coils out, the spring is so short, it moves around up and down. however, we twisted up the adjuster until it made contact and it all was solid, and low and behold, it lowered the car, made the spring stiffer and was PERFECT!!!!!!

So, NOW you all know. you can cut the springs on the car, avoid costly disasembly and time and it turns out GREAT!!!!

pics to come!!

MK

(scot is one happy camper now. SCCA ITE race for us in June!)

Jim bailey - 928 International

And the car NOW has STIFFER springs as well !!

LT Texan

Mark,

My '78 front end is way too high. I put on blistiens with perch adjustments adjusted all the way down.

I figured I needed to remove the coilovers (argh), disassemble and cut the spring.

I have a couple questions:

1. Did you use a spring compressor to keep the spring from unloading when the cut was done?

2. How did you pull a full cut coil out? Didnt the shock get in the way? Did you have to cut the full coil in half?

Thanks
Dan

mark kibort

Yes, we used a couple of clamps to take the pressure off the lower purch, and cut the spring coil . after its cut, obviously, now you cant remove it, so you make another cut of that piece to remove it which is very easy. heck with enough time and inserts, you could do this job with a dremel.

The springs are just designed WRONG, even for a stock car. one spring coil pulled out, makes the car stiffer and lower as it should be for any kind of performance driving.

mk

mark kibort

the added benifit, is that the coils are not under pressure under droop. the rear as welll. they can be removed and you can do work on the shock spring set ups wtihout a spring compressor.

LT Texan

thanks much

Ispeed

Do I need to say it... You guys are such hacks. Are Hypercoils too much money? There is more clearance for wheels with 2.5" id springs too.

GregBBRD

Mark posts this stuff, just to see if he can get a rise out of the people that actually know what is wrong with this approach.

Hot damn....grab your chainsaw and your axe...we're going to work on a race car, today.

mark kibort

Proof in point. Scot has no rubbing issues. Runs the same wheels as I do. No isssues. His car is slightly stiffer than mine now, which I like a little better. (but of course, if I had my shocks revalved and got 50lb stiffer springs I would be in heaven right now). The Bilstiens sports work just fine to control the springs that are now cut. (no bad rebound or compression issues).

The springs when cut, fit perfectly into the stock 928 purches.

The ONLY downside is that the system is more weight than the koni/hypercoil set up. (and of course, there is no adjustment) BUT, I can tell you that the car drives great. remember, he has run 1:41.xx at Laguna Seca with that hodge podge bucket of bolts. It has NO mods to speak of except a set of headers and the swaybar vs the stock 928 components.

What is the downside of cutting a spring that seems to be too long and too soft anyway? as well as a shock that seems to be too stiff for the eibach custom 928 setup? NOTHING. no downside. by chance we have found a set up that works well on the 928 for no money out of pocket. Sure, a hack saw, dremel, or die grinder seems caveman-like, but in the end, all we really are doing is stiffening up the spring rate, giving more room in a system with FAR too much motion ratio anyway for the length of spring, AND creating a car that handles much better. I would be willing to bet, that spring cutting on any 928 stock or eibach, would be a move in the right direction for those that dont want to mess with an adjustable set up or not want to incure the cost. PLUS, it works and works well on the track! 1:41 at laguna is proof enough. How may 928s run faster than this at Laguna???? Dean K's 5 liter ran 1:44, Chuck's euro race car ran 1:45, Dennis has run 1:44, I ran 1:41.xx in scots type set up but with the koni/hipercoils with my '84 5 liter. I've run races where it was clear the only real differences between our two cars was the way we were driving, and his acceleration capability. shock/spring -wise, it was pretty darn good. Actually better, as he is not breaking swaybar mounts up front like I destroy them! (he has, what seems to be a higher spring rate up front and doenst require as much front bar)

mk

mark kibort

Hey,

You will be please to know, when scot did the clutch job we cleaned up the edges of that "Axe" looking cut-out on the bell housing for adjusting the intermediate plate.

Sure, generally, we dont know how this will work on a stock spring and shock. But, it seems very clear that the eibach, koni-bilstien set ups could use much more spring and still work better, as well as the ride hight being WAY WAY off in stock and performance modes! I raced a car with this set up with the ride high set as low as it could go. IT was a mess. the front of the car was doing a wheelie . (like scots before the mod) with the mod, it is a pleasure to drive on the track. No ill attributes.

so, what are the other things that are wrong with such a modification?

Mk (Have Axe will travel! )

PS : By the way, go pick on the poor schmoe that wants to race his 928 with the welded on brake caliper hub ears! Now that is scary, unless he KNOWs who did the cutting and welding to the hub.

ew928

So how much do the springs rattle when the car hits a good bump in the road and goes airborne?


You can remove unsprung weight if you cross drill the wheels.
All that metal is just in the way of brake cooling.

mark kibort

0. They end up with the perfect amount of preload in the front and just a tiny bit at full droop in the rear. no rattling, and no noise. you have to get air born for the rear purch to lose contact with the rear spring. a very easy fix is to only take a half coil out of the rear.

mk

bcdavis

My problem with doing this on other cars, is that it messes up your suspension geometry.
Causes a bit of negative camber, causing wear on the insides of the tires.
Can sometimes be adjusted to get the geometry correct again,
depending on how much adjustment can be done. But it might be
a good idea to check the alignment after doing this...

But I agree that it's a lot easier than removing the springs.

mark kibort

It doesnt do anything that turning the adjusters do anyway. In fact, most of the 928s can be lowered by an amount that doesnt change the alignment enough to be a problem. In fact, you dont even need to change the ride hight if you dont want to. cutting the springs allows you to actually have some adjustment of ride hight that you didnt previously have. ln otherwords, cutting the springs doesnt have to change anything at all, except ride stiffness.

I run soft race tires and 1.7 degrees of negative camber and do not see any inside tire wear. most inside tire wear is due to toe out issues. (too much toed out.).

mk

LT Texan

that's what I am looking for. I've got the adjusters lowered all the way and my front end is still inches too high.