supercharger philosophy
03-24-2004, 06:07 PM
#31
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Also, the MURPH kits work successfully for people, and there have not been any complaints, unlike the FAST and Munck installs. Andy's prototypes seem to be successful, and if a bunch of people start tossing his kits on their cars, and have great results, his kits will also have the same stamp of approval from the people. And if DeltaP's kit, or John's turbo kit, are also released to the public, they will have to go through the same evaluation by the buyers. A "test" car, or a "mule" does not make people confident in a kit. What makes people confident, is testimonials from people who got the kit, put it on, and it worked without too much hassle. You have no idea how much tuning or custom stuff goes onto a mule. That is why the Devek white car is also not as good of a testimonial, as dyno sheets or testimonials from owners of stroked engines, etc... Mules do not sell kits... Testimonials, and successful installs on the road without problems do...
03-24-2004, 06:18 PM
#32
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As always a slamfest. It's always nice having people who do little more than sit behind their computers slam away. Where are your products for the 928 community?
Tim, although water does have a nice heat transfer coefficient the heat path for air-to-water is intake air/aluminum/cooling water/aluminum in heat exchanger/ambient air whereas the heat path for the air-to-air is intake air/aluminum/ambient air.
I didn't know rennlist is a hangout for psychics. I like how somebody who has never seen my intended intercoler setup has determined that I'm going to have 10 feet of 3" silicon hoses all over the engine bay. Thanks genius.
Couldn't you have simply said: from what I've seen, the plumbing can get quite complex on air-to-air systems. Have you found a simple way to handle this...best wishes.
Wouldn't that have been a lot nicer?
Steve M928, thanks for slamming my website. As I said it's not finshed. Can I see yours please? What products do you provide to the community. What is your motivation to be so completely negative? You don't even know me?
Couldn't you have simply said: I'm a little confused by a few things on your website even though you said it wasn't finished. I do appreciate your efforts and all the time and money you are spending so that you can contribute to the community, but I've alread closed my mind to any other options. So can you just please leave? I'm uncomfortable with choices.
Woudn't that have been a little more straightforward?
"DeltaP talks about their stuff being aluminum and also suggests Corky Bell's book which states "A 3 square inch aluminum bar will stretch the same as a 1 square inch steel bar under the same tension or compression load. This quickly uses up all of aluminum's advantage of light weight. Therefore, when selecting a material for a tension or compression link, always use steel.""
Notice it says tension link or compression link. Aluminum is an excellent structural material when used correctly. Those of you who ride mountain bikes have seen a departure from steel to aluminum. Only the Huffies are still made out of steel. There's more than just modulus. Any pilots out there? Any other aerospace engineers out there want to back me up. Steel is somewhat of an oddity in space. Fasteners and pins are typically the primary use for steel in space. Aluminum is an excellent structural material and it doesn't rust.
As for the lack of airflow through the intercooler at standstill, I have electric fans that can turn on or off at will.
As for the negative post about our chip development...are you developing a chip too??? Where is all this hatred coming from? Yea we need bigger injectors, I never said we didn't. BFD. Did it feel good for you to chime in with your 2 cents worth of negativity?
You could have simply said: having a custom chip for a supercharged 928 would be a nice option for the community. Have you explored the need for larger injectors due to the pules width, etc. Anyways, good luck with your efforts. I'm encouraged that there are others who are out there burning away their free time and money to try to provide us with even more options for these great cars!
Wouldn't that have been a little more productive?
As for the rumors regarding a certain individual blowing "engines", my first hand knowledge tells otherwise. Once again I would ask the moderators to censor any slanderous rumors until some physical evidence is given. Conversely, I have heard a few rumors about Tim blowing an engine and then a head gasket. I say rumor, because I don't know if it is true, but so what. If Tim blew an engine and then fixed it, my hat's off. I think anybody who goes through that much effort for their 928 and this community is doing a great service.
I don't get some of you guys. I would think you would be encouraged by another potential OPTION for your cars. Additionally, a variety of vendors should help the prices drop. If you discourage competition, you will be forced to pay what the one remaining vendor wants to charge? What if the big 3 were only the big 1? That would suck.
For those of you who are actually considering supercharging and wish to weigh their options, I welcome any sincere questions and even any constructive criticism.
As always,
It's been a pleasure.
Tim, although water does have a nice heat transfer coefficient the heat path for air-to-water is intake air/aluminum/cooling water/aluminum in heat exchanger/ambient air whereas the heat path for the air-to-air is intake air/aluminum/ambient air.
I didn't know rennlist is a hangout for psychics. I like how somebody who has never seen my intended intercoler setup has determined that I'm going to have 10 feet of 3" silicon hoses all over the engine bay. Thanks genius.
Couldn't you have simply said: from what I've seen, the plumbing can get quite complex on air-to-air systems. Have you found a simple way to handle this...best wishes.
Wouldn't that have been a lot nicer?
Steve M928, thanks for slamming my website. As I said it's not finshed. Can I see yours please? What products do you provide to the community. What is your motivation to be so completely negative? You don't even know me?
Couldn't you have simply said: I'm a little confused by a few things on your website even though you said it wasn't finished. I do appreciate your efforts and all the time and money you are spending so that you can contribute to the community, but I've alread closed my mind to any other options. So can you just please leave? I'm uncomfortable with choices.
Woudn't that have been a little more straightforward?
"DeltaP talks about their stuff being aluminum and also suggests Corky Bell's book which states "A 3 square inch aluminum bar will stretch the same as a 1 square inch steel bar under the same tension or compression load. This quickly uses up all of aluminum's advantage of light weight. Therefore, when selecting a material for a tension or compression link, always use steel.""
Notice it says tension link or compression link. Aluminum is an excellent structural material when used correctly. Those of you who ride mountain bikes have seen a departure from steel to aluminum. Only the Huffies are still made out of steel. There's more than just modulus. Any pilots out there? Any other aerospace engineers out there want to back me up. Steel is somewhat of an oddity in space. Fasteners and pins are typically the primary use for steel in space. Aluminum is an excellent structural material and it doesn't rust.
As for the lack of airflow through the intercooler at standstill, I have electric fans that can turn on or off at will.
As for the negative post about our chip development...are you developing a chip too??? Where is all this hatred coming from? Yea we need bigger injectors, I never said we didn't. BFD. Did it feel good for you to chime in with your 2 cents worth of negativity?
You could have simply said: having a custom chip for a supercharged 928 would be a nice option for the community. Have you explored the need for larger injectors due to the pules width, etc. Anyways, good luck with your efforts. I'm encouraged that there are others who are out there burning away their free time and money to try to provide us with even more options for these great cars!
Wouldn't that have been a little more productive?
As for the rumors regarding a certain individual blowing "engines", my first hand knowledge tells otherwise. Once again I would ask the moderators to censor any slanderous rumors until some physical evidence is given. Conversely, I have heard a few rumors about Tim blowing an engine and then a head gasket. I say rumor, because I don't know if it is true, but so what. If Tim blew an engine and then fixed it, my hat's off. I think anybody who goes through that much effort for their 928 and this community is doing a great service.
I don't get some of you guys. I would think you would be encouraged by another potential OPTION for your cars. Additionally, a variety of vendors should help the prices drop. If you discourage competition, you will be forced to pay what the one remaining vendor wants to charge? What if the big 3 were only the big 1? That would suck.
For those of you who are actually considering supercharging and wish to weigh their options, I welcome any sincere questions and even any constructive criticism.
As always,
It's been a pleasure.
03-24-2004, 06:24 PM
#33
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OH BOY,
As I stated in a previous post I felt that Delta-P had the best looking and efficient brackets and pullies that I have seen. My kit was in fact Erik M's "kit" with Delta-P brakets in pullies... so my kit had all the best componets minus the important little things that make a kit a kit.
As for Delta-P's complete kit I can make no comment other than I have seen his instalation components and procedures in a 40 something page color print out... and those looked about as complete as complete can be.
Anyhow go Chargers... superchargers that is...I'm a Dolfan.
Chris
As I stated in a previous post I felt that Delta-P had the best looking and efficient brackets and pullies that I have seen. My kit was in fact Erik M's "kit" with Delta-P brakets in pullies... so my kit had all the best componets minus the important little things that make a kit a kit.
As for Delta-P's complete kit I can make no comment other than I have seen his instalation components and procedures in a 40 something page color print out... and those looked about as complete as complete can be.
Anyhow go Chargers... superchargers that is...I'm a Dolfan.
Chris
03-24-2004, 06:35 PM
#34
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I agree about the negativity.
I think it's cool what you, and John, and others are doing, for developing new and inovative products.
I'd prefer if people just let people do what they want, and then put the kits out there, and see if people like the results. If the kit is not well done, or is too expensive, or kills engines, then few people will buy it.
Time will tell on all of these projects...
It's just with the Munck thing, the actual owner of the car posted that the install was a failure, and then the second owner also reported that the install was a mess, and removed it. He did not say the bracket was poorly made, or your work was poor, but that the install was not well-done. So he removed the kit. All I am saying, is that your association with Projekt928 makes it harder to swallow your promises of superb engineering. Because that is what Eric offered, and did not manage to deliver. If his "kits" were so good, he could have installed just as many as the MURPH crew, and had a bunch of cars driving around happy, and had happy owner testimonials. So what you will need to do, in order to have your product be successful, and throw off those preconceptions, is to do exactly that. Get your kit on a few cars, and have the owners report success, not failure.
I think it's cool what you, and John, and others are doing, for developing new and inovative products.
I'd prefer if people just let people do what they want, and then put the kits out there, and see if people like the results. If the kit is not well done, or is too expensive, or kills engines, then few people will buy it.
Time will tell on all of these projects...
It's just with the Munck thing, the actual owner of the car posted that the install was a failure, and then the second owner also reported that the install was a mess, and removed it. He did not say the bracket was poorly made, or your work was poor, but that the install was not well-done. So he removed the kit. All I am saying, is that your association with Projekt928 makes it harder to swallow your promises of superb engineering. Because that is what Eric offered, and did not manage to deliver. If his "kits" were so good, he could have installed just as many as the MURPH crew, and had a bunch of cars driving around happy, and had happy owner testimonials. So what you will need to do, in order to have your product be successful, and throw off those preconceptions, is to do exactly that. Get your kit on a few cars, and have the owners report success, not failure.
03-25-2004, 01:19 AM
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I have heard a few rumors about Tim blowing an engine and then a head gasket. I say rumor, because I don't know if it is true, but so what.
Like every thing, you just have to chock it up to experience and learn from it, then move on!
03-25-2004, 02:02 AM
#37
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My 78 Shark will be done with smog checks for good in a couple of years. At that time I will definitely add some power, somehow. I hope there are a number of different options to choose from at that time. In the meantime, I have to say that I find the speed with which people jump on those who are experimenting to be a little disconcerting.
Fer chrissakes, who else is working out BOTH air-air & air-h2o intercoolers? And guys, maybe the weight differences amount to little, but isn't that why we love these cars, because the designers put so much thought into how to put the whole package together? Why get on someone's case for doing the same? It's his time and money, you don't have to agree with him. But do you have to be so vituperative?
Some people shake their heads when they find that my battery is under the spare. But it's there because it's the most sensible place to put it. Somebody put a lot of thought into it and it probably went there despite objections from others on the team.
I have perhaps an idealistic vision of what this forum could be, different people meeting and sharing opinions and knowledge, and picking up where Porsche left off improving the breed. I've only been on this board a few months and maybe I'm missing some history; but much of what I've seen on this thread does not seem to be a very good example of the vision that I spoke of.
Fer chrissakes, who else is working out BOTH air-air & air-h2o intercoolers? And guys, maybe the weight differences amount to little, but isn't that why we love these cars, because the designers put so much thought into how to put the whole package together? Why get on someone's case for doing the same? It's his time and money, you don't have to agree with him. But do you have to be so vituperative?
Some people shake their heads when they find that my battery is under the spare. But it's there because it's the most sensible place to put it. Somebody put a lot of thought into it and it probably went there despite objections from others on the team.
I have perhaps an idealistic vision of what this forum could be, different people meeting and sharing opinions and knowledge, and picking up where Porsche left off improving the breed. I've only been on this board a few months and maybe I'm missing some history; but much of what I've seen on this thread does not seem to be a very good example of the vision that I spoke of.
03-25-2004, 03:35 AM
#38
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by deltaP
As always a slamfest. It's always nice having people who do little more than sit behind their computers slam away. Where are your products for the 928 community?
What does this have to do with critiquing, or discussing any topic? This is the same logic as "you can't review movies unless you make movies". You're gonna do something? Great. If your products are good they will stand on their own merits, I (and the rest of those who raise questions) will stand corrected. What's the worry?
I didn't know rennlist is a hangout for psychics. I like how somebody who has never seen my intended intercoler setup has determined that I'm going to have 10 feet of 3" silicon hoses all over the engine bay. Thanks genius.
I actually said "6/8/10". Were you planning on putting the exchanger core somewhere other than the front of the car? Sure, it could be aluminum tubing instead of silicone, but I just assumed that since aluminum would pick up more heat, that would be out of the question. My bad. Perhaps PVC? I also said that visually that was "my personal preference" just to reply to your statement that "A/W systems make such a cluttered engine compartment".(slightly paraphrased, can't remember verbatim). I also do remember clearly stating that it was your preference and it IS a mechanically simpler transaction. But please, don't say stuff like "A/A is better" unless you're looking for a discussion of the thermodynamics of heat transfer, and the effects of tubing runs and big A/A intercoolers on charge pressure and flow rates. That's what we do here, we kick stuff around, sometimes we even kinda argue about it.
Without exception to this point, I would be happy to shake hands with and buy each and every person on this board libation of their choice in a social setting. Many folks more than one.
Couldn't you have simply said: from what I've seen, the plumbing can get quite complex on air-to-air systems. Have you found a simple way to handle this...best wishes.
Wouldn't that have been a lot nicer?
OK. Have you found a way to move air in and out of a cooler without putting in it in a hose? Best wishes.
Steve M928, thanks for slamming my website. As I said it's not finshed. Can I see yours please? What products do you provide to the community. What is your motivation to be so completely negative? You don't even know me?
Is it true or not that you have lifted images on your site? If it's not true, say so. (I didn't see a denial so I think I know the answer.) If it is true, you deserve far worse than Steve dished out. Do the work, or face the tar and feathers. Your choice. Once again, "let's see yours" is faulty logic and frankly, rather sad.
As for the negative post about our chip development...are you developing a chip too??? Where is all this hatred coming from? Yea we need bigger injectors, I never said we didn't. BFD. Did it feel good for you to chime in with your 2 cents worth of negativity?
Chip? Nope. Most tuners concluded long ago that they are of very, very limited value unless they are field flashable. There's simply too many "x"s in the equation to produce satisfactory repeatable results. Were you going to include the software and hardware to field program with your chip? Is this another one of those things you feel you don't have to explain? Since you didn't say so, nor did you hint it was field-flashable. Feel good? Huh? That I would have to point out such stuff is rather disappointing, and tends to make one seriously question your injection knowledge. Most folks selling this board would've put out that info up front. Guess you think you don't have to...
And actually, you said "just a chip, no FMU". Last time I checked, "just a chip" means "just a chip". You didn't say anything about bigger injectors. If you're going to sell, be sure to explain things like that. Keeps people like me from thinking you're another Robert Hack.
You could have simply said: having a custom chip for a supercharged 928 would be a nice option for the community. Have you explored the need for larger injectors due to the pules width, etc. Anyways, good luck with your efforts. I'm encouraged that there are others who are out there burning away their free time and money to try to provide us with even more options for these great cars!
Wouldn't that have been a little more productive?
Hardly productive. I know the answers to the limits of increasing fuel via pulsewidth change. Many of the other folks on this board know this too. If one purports to provide adequate fuel for a 12PSIG supercharged 928 engine using "just a chip" then I know they either haven't done their homework, or they are just not being truthful. That was the dataset that you gave me to work with in your ad. Sure, one can do bigger injectors at stock fuel pressure and it may be tunable, but once again, I was working with the info that YOU gave.
I don't get some of you guys. I would think you would be encouraged by another potential OPTION for your cars. Additionally, a variety of vendors should help the prices drop. If you discourage competition, you will be forced to pay what the one remaining vendor wants to charge? What if the big 3 were only the big 1? That would suck.
I'm sure everyone would be happy to see another option. Nobody that I read here has said otherwise. However, if you are going to advertise in the kitchen, you might want to better think through how you're gonna stand the heat. Why is it so troubling to you that people (myself included) threw you some mild critique on stuff in your ad? It is encumbent on YOU to figure out how to answer these questions before you run ads (after all, we all know it was a thinly cloaked advert, don't we?). I certainly can appreciate the marketing effort, and take no offense to it, in and of itself.
In my humble experience, an honest businessman with a valid product is able to take any critiques like these in stride, and simply provide a response to the issues raised. Because he/she has the strength of his/her product and convictions, he/she soldiers on. Interestingly enough, there seem to be several other folks out there who sell stuff on this board. They seem to prevent this sort of "negativity" by providing product statements that meet the basic laws of physics, explaining how they do it, and when questioned, they don't whine about people "being mean and picking on them" -they suck it up and answer the questions, however they are posed. Then folks make infomed decisions. The salesman with integrity does not endeavor to pick the rules of the Q&A - he knows that folks will think (rightly or wrongly) that he has something to hide.
Which kind of businessman are you?
Cheers,
Greg
As always a slamfest. It's always nice having people who do little more than sit behind their computers slam away. Where are your products for the 928 community?
What does this have to do with critiquing, or discussing any topic? This is the same logic as "you can't review movies unless you make movies". You're gonna do something? Great. If your products are good they will stand on their own merits, I (and the rest of those who raise questions) will stand corrected. What's the worry?
I didn't know rennlist is a hangout for psychics. I like how somebody who has never seen my intended intercoler setup has determined that I'm going to have 10 feet of 3" silicon hoses all over the engine bay. Thanks genius.
I actually said "6/8/10". Were you planning on putting the exchanger core somewhere other than the front of the car? Sure, it could be aluminum tubing instead of silicone, but I just assumed that since aluminum would pick up more heat, that would be out of the question. My bad. Perhaps PVC? I also said that visually that was "my personal preference" just to reply to your statement that "A/W systems make such a cluttered engine compartment".(slightly paraphrased, can't remember verbatim). I also do remember clearly stating that it was your preference and it IS a mechanically simpler transaction. But please, don't say stuff like "A/A is better" unless you're looking for a discussion of the thermodynamics of heat transfer, and the effects of tubing runs and big A/A intercoolers on charge pressure and flow rates. That's what we do here, we kick stuff around, sometimes we even kinda argue about it.
Without exception to this point, I would be happy to shake hands with and buy each and every person on this board libation of their choice in a social setting. Many folks more than one.
Couldn't you have simply said: from what I've seen, the plumbing can get quite complex on air-to-air systems. Have you found a simple way to handle this...best wishes.
Wouldn't that have been a lot nicer?
OK. Have you found a way to move air in and out of a cooler without putting in it in a hose? Best wishes.
Steve M928, thanks for slamming my website. As I said it's not finshed. Can I see yours please? What products do you provide to the community. What is your motivation to be so completely negative? You don't even know me?
Is it true or not that you have lifted images on your site? If it's not true, say so. (I didn't see a denial so I think I know the answer.) If it is true, you deserve far worse than Steve dished out. Do the work, or face the tar and feathers. Your choice. Once again, "let's see yours" is faulty logic and frankly, rather sad.
As for the negative post about our chip development...are you developing a chip too??? Where is all this hatred coming from? Yea we need bigger injectors, I never said we didn't. BFD. Did it feel good for you to chime in with your 2 cents worth of negativity?
Chip? Nope. Most tuners concluded long ago that they are of very, very limited value unless they are field flashable. There's simply too many "x"s in the equation to produce satisfactory repeatable results. Were you going to include the software and hardware to field program with your chip? Is this another one of those things you feel you don't have to explain? Since you didn't say so, nor did you hint it was field-flashable. Feel good? Huh? That I would have to point out such stuff is rather disappointing, and tends to make one seriously question your injection knowledge. Most folks selling this board would've put out that info up front. Guess you think you don't have to...
And actually, you said "just a chip, no FMU". Last time I checked, "just a chip" means "just a chip". You didn't say anything about bigger injectors. If you're going to sell, be sure to explain things like that. Keeps people like me from thinking you're another Robert Hack.
You could have simply said: having a custom chip for a supercharged 928 would be a nice option for the community. Have you explored the need for larger injectors due to the pules width, etc. Anyways, good luck with your efforts. I'm encouraged that there are others who are out there burning away their free time and money to try to provide us with even more options for these great cars!
Wouldn't that have been a little more productive?
Hardly productive. I know the answers to the limits of increasing fuel via pulsewidth change. Many of the other folks on this board know this too. If one purports to provide adequate fuel for a 12PSIG supercharged 928 engine using "just a chip" then I know they either haven't done their homework, or they are just not being truthful. That was the dataset that you gave me to work with in your ad. Sure, one can do bigger injectors at stock fuel pressure and it may be tunable, but once again, I was working with the info that YOU gave.
I don't get some of you guys. I would think you would be encouraged by another potential OPTION for your cars. Additionally, a variety of vendors should help the prices drop. If you discourage competition, you will be forced to pay what the one remaining vendor wants to charge? What if the big 3 were only the big 1? That would suck.
I'm sure everyone would be happy to see another option. Nobody that I read here has said otherwise. However, if you are going to advertise in the kitchen, you might want to better think through how you're gonna stand the heat. Why is it so troubling to you that people (myself included) threw you some mild critique on stuff in your ad? It is encumbent on YOU to figure out how to answer these questions before you run ads (after all, we all know it was a thinly cloaked advert, don't we?). I certainly can appreciate the marketing effort, and take no offense to it, in and of itself.
In my humble experience, an honest businessman with a valid product is able to take any critiques like these in stride, and simply provide a response to the issues raised. Because he/she has the strength of his/her product and convictions, he/she soldiers on. Interestingly enough, there seem to be several other folks out there who sell stuff on this board. They seem to prevent this sort of "negativity" by providing product statements that meet the basic laws of physics, explaining how they do it, and when questioned, they don't whine about people "being mean and picking on them" -they suck it up and answer the questions, however they are posed. Then folks make infomed decisions. The salesman with integrity does not endeavor to pick the rules of the Q&A - he knows that folks will think (rightly or wrongly) that he has something to hide.
Which kind of businessman are you?
Cheers,
Greg
03-25-2004, 06:55 AM
#39
Drifting
hey chris,
i think its great that there are options for supercharging just like with suspension and all the other upgrades available. although engineering isnt my specialty i do appreciate that others may have questions about the more technical aspects of what you have on offer.
i agree and think that some comments seem very negative, furthermore they sound like unfounded opnions in their own right! why are some people so down? i dont get it either but perhaps its to do with their mother...
porsche saw fit to put the small weight of the battery in the boot and i couldnt agree more with your concern over weight distribution and balance, it makes sense to me.
i think its great that there are options for supercharging just like with suspension and all the other upgrades available. although engineering isnt my specialty i do appreciate that others may have questions about the more technical aspects of what you have on offer.
i agree and think that some comments seem very negative, furthermore they sound like unfounded opnions in their own right! why are some people so down? i dont get it either but perhaps its to do with their mother...
porsche saw fit to put the small weight of the battery in the boot and i couldnt agree more with your concern over weight distribution and balance, it makes sense to me.
03-25-2004, 10:12 AM
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To all those who question why some of us are being "so negative"... we've been down this road before & we smell a fish.
The guy seems to have a nice bracket which is an easy sell, given the limited options available. It's his lack of rounded knowledge in the SC arena, failure to answer specific questions and acting like a snake oil salesman that will send him home.
The guy seems to have a nice bracket which is an easy sell, given the limited options available. It's his lack of rounded knowledge in the SC arena, failure to answer specific questions and acting like a snake oil salesman that will send him home.
03-25-2004, 10:36 AM
#41
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Some basic rules of business:
Every body votes with their money. The opinions are just extra "noise".
Speaking as a PAYING customer, there is a HUGE difference between blowing up an engine (or blowing out a head gasket) ON YOUR OWN CAR versus having that happen to a paying customer.
I am enjoying this debate and learning at the same time. The learning part is not possible witout scientific proof that the opinions expressed are in fact valid. I think closing this thread would be a rediculous form of sensoring.
Anyone who wants to pontificate their opinions to the public should be prepared to take the critique like an adult. Any other behavior calls into serious question your credibility.
Every body votes with their money. The opinions are just extra "noise".
Speaking as a PAYING customer, there is a HUGE difference between blowing up an engine (or blowing out a head gasket) ON YOUR OWN CAR versus having that happen to a paying customer.
I am enjoying this debate and learning at the same time. The learning part is not possible witout scientific proof that the opinions expressed are in fact valid. I think closing this thread would be a rediculous form of sensoring.
Anyone who wants to pontificate their opinions to the public should be prepared to take the critique like an adult. Any other behavior calls into serious question your credibility.
03-25-2004, 02:11 PM
#42
Drifting
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Gretch,
You make some great insights. I'm really starting to like you.
All of Tim's customers are on this board and none of them have blown up an engine. This is what matters, the customer's engine is safe.
I have planned to blow up my engine from the begining so I can tell people what not to do. I may do it if I keep driving 60+ miles per day in the worst traffic in the world on 91 octane with over 8psi and an intercooler that is smaller than the smallest one I am selling.
Andy K
You make some great insights. I'm really starting to like you.
All of Tim's customers are on this board and none of them have blown up an engine. This is what matters, the customer's engine is safe.
I have planned to blow up my engine from the begining so I can tell people what not to do. I may do it if I keep driving 60+ miles per day in the worst traffic in the world on 91 octane with over 8psi and an intercooler that is smaller than the smallest one I am selling.
Andy K
03-25-2004, 03:01 PM
#44
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Originally posted by GoRideSno
Gretch,
You make some great insights. I'm really starting to like you.
Andy K
Gretch,
You make some great insights. I'm really starting to like you.
Andy K
Anyway, my view is that the only arguements with credibility here are made by the developers themselves. (irrespective of the way in which they choose to express themselves). Mark, Tim, John, Andy and even Mark (FAST) and others have done the development work, at their own expense, and some have ventured into the risky world of selling the results of their efforts to the commercial market. All that activity takes guts and tenacity, so I would expect that when challenged, gutsy people will prolly have strongly held opinions.
For those of us who are customers, our reasons for being so may vary quite widely......
I haven't weighed in on the dyno vs drag strip arguement because I have no real interest in it, nor for that matter any FACTS to back up an opinion. In my own case, while I may be mildly interested in 1/4 mile times, I do not ever intend to use Gretch that way, and have no desire to put her to that kind of test. Some other customers may have the exact opposite set of desires.....TheY can go get the facts if they want.......
I am VERY interested in the various techniques being applied to boosting these engines, some of that interest is intellectual and some of it is less lofty. I say, keep up with your projects and let us "potential customers" know how it is going. Most of us are smart enough to make decisions based on fact, and to sort out the hyperbole.
Best regards Gents
03-25-2004, 03:13 PM
#45
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Originally posted by deltaP
Steve M928, thanks for slamming my website. As I said it's not finshed. Can I see yours please? What products do you provide to the community.
Steve M928, thanks for slamming my website. As I said it's not finshed. Can I see yours please? What products do you provide to the community.
Originally posted by deltaP
As for the rumors regarding a certain individual blowing "engines", my first hand knowledge tells otherwise. Once again I would ask the moderators to censor any slanderous rumors until some physical evidence is given. Conversely, I have heard a few rumors about Tim blowing an engine and then a head gasket. I say rumor, because I don't know if it is true, but so what.
As for the rumors regarding a certain individual blowing "engines", my first hand knowledge tells otherwise. Once again I would ask the moderators to censor any slanderous rumors until some physical evidence is given. Conversely, I have heard a few rumors about Tim blowing an engine and then a head gasket. I say rumor, because I don't know if it is true, but so what.
Is it true or not that you have lifted images on your site? If it's not true, say so. (I didn't see a denial so I think I know the answer.) If it is true, you deserve far worse than Steve dished out.
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...hreadid=122508
DeltaP hasn't made a post here in over nine months. Then he starts this thread with the web site and picture of Blown Beast's car, the very next day after Blown Beast made that post saying that he made his own system. Pretty bad timing it seems.
I really don't think my prior post was a "slamfest". I know of five individuals that have or had the DeltaP bracket on their car. I've heard directly from one of those individuals, and heard of feedback from three of the others about the bracket. I also talked to another 928 owner that's an engineer about the bracket after pictures of it first appeared. If I would have wanted to start what I'm sure DeltaP would consider slamming, I could have very easily done that. Just to show that I'm not 100% down on anybody, I will say something positive. The DeltaP bracket is a very pretty color.
I'm definitely not against a lot of options. I think a lot of options can be a very, very good thing. On the other hand, some people chose the option of taking the Titanic to cross the Atlantic.
I'm not going to go intro the air-air vs air-water thing at all. I'm well aware that some people aren't going to change their minds or opinions no matter how many facts are presented on the matter.