John Speake

OK Niels, hang in there. If all else fails we'll send the boys around to help you out !

Niels Jørgensen

Hi... Not given up entirely after all

I'll check the starter this weekend (figured I'd need a little more than the single hour of daylight I have on weekdays + I've been picking up a few tools I'll need), even though my local mech have never heard of a starter locking up the engine.

He quoted me $250 for a used starter (3yrs) and $500 for a re-build unit. He has an 88 engine with 163KKm priced at $6000 (not re-build) which IMO is quite a bit overpriced.

Rebuilding my engine he guesstimated (not knowing what's actually wrong) would amount to 40 hours of $100 + parts...

Back to the starter though: Anyone BTDT with some hints on what to do and esp. what not to do? I guess it's a simple operation but as I have never done it before and since I don't have the workshop manuals (I'd like a set, but so, it seems, would everyone else), any advice would be much appreciated.

TIA guys (and girls )...

UKKid35

I know Denmark is expensive, but those starter motor prices sound high, however that is rather academic for the moment.

Checking whether the starter motor is seized is fairly simply: remove the rear undertray (4 to 8 self tapping screws - depending on how many are missing), remove the lower clutch bellhousing (about 8 bolts), then you can see the starter gear and the flywheel where it engages. If the starter gear is still engaged you should be able to pop it back towards the starter body, you should also be able to turn it easily once it is disengaged. Hopefully it will be locked solid, unable to disengage or turn.

If the replacement engine includes fitting and a warrantee then that may not be completely ridiculous.

For what it's worth replacing the heads on my car took me about a dozen or so weekends, and cost less than $2000 in parts, however I was no more experienced than you and I was working in less than ideal conditions.

Niels Jørgensen

Thanks Paul, great info. I have my fingers crossed hoping I'll find a starter-melt-down rather than stuck pistons or damaged valves.

I'm quite sure the engine price is quoted "as sitting on the floor in the shop". Ex. transport, installation and warranty. But I would rather get a cheap, running (possible slightly damaged) car in Germany and part it out if there's no way around an engine swap. Or possibly rebuild my current engine, like you say, a nice little DIY job :O

I'll post more info on this perculiar problem as it becomes available - same bat channel... Stay tuned

sweanders

Niels, if you want contact with a good 928 mechanic with decent prices here in Malmö I've got a great contact for you.

sweanders

Damn, we should've gone cruising a long time ago.. And now this.. I hope it's one of those problems that are hard to find the reason for but easy to fix.

UKKid35

For what it's worth I would remove the other distributor cap first, it should only take five minutes, and you don't have to crawl under the car.

Have you checked the marks on the harmonic balancer yet? Is it very close to the 45 BTDC mark?

Niels Jørgensen

It was freezing yesterday, I was depressed about the whole car-thing, it was dark outside and I just got "The Italian Job" on DVD, so I had plenty of excuses to stay inside But of course you're right, I should finish checking the TB before doing anything else.

The left side does not seem easy though; there's a coolant hose very much in the way. Can I unmount it in the "high" end without flushing the coolant first? (That is, without making a mess )

Anders, yeah I know, sucks doesn't it?... Actually I'm seriously considering moving to Sweden. Not because of this latest incident, it just kind of "tipped the cup". The money i get back in reg. tax alone could buy me a new car ... We're considering taking a closer look at a couple of houses just outside of Trelleborg.

sweanders

Well, wouldn't that be a bit of coincidense.. My dad is selling his house just outside of Trelleborg this summer..

It's the house where I spent the first 19 years of my life, would be great if someone I know buys it..

Garth S

Neils,
At the risk of repeating myself, ... OK, I'll do it anyway! It is very (VERY!) difficult to turn an engine over with a 20 cm wrench - reaching down past the fans, etc., even with the plugs out.
I'd mentioned the starter , etc. as alternatives following failure to be able to turn the engine over with a 'man - sized' bar (45 - 50 cm).
Do this before planning on an engine $$$$ transfusion.
It is easier to drain 2-3l of coolant from the bottom rad drain, and pull the hoses prior to removal of the right cam cover (we'll mention later how to bleed the air out of the system, if you haven't done it before. ). When this is done, if you can turn the engine, the entire timing sequence can be verified, as well as belt condition, etc..
As far as removal of the lower bell housing to examine the starter drive - it may be necessary to lower the exhaust system (opening 3 - bolt flanges at the headers) not an issue just yet.
BTW, there is a 25mm inspection hole, with a black rubber plug, in the bottom of the bell housing: with any luck, you can 'Inspect' to verify the position of the started drive.
PS - I showed your cartoon to my dogs - they're still howling!, but I'm not sure it's with laughter.

Zandramus

Neils

I agree with Bart, you should try turning over the engine with an appropriate sized bar before doing anything else. a 20 cm bar is not adequate enough to get enough torque on the motor to turn it.


Z

Niels Jørgensen

Hehe... Hope I didn't traumatize your dogs :P

Ok, I'll do the following, starting tonight:

1) Get a bigger wrench on the crank and try to turn it again. Possibly by raising the car and accessing from below.
2) If that does not work. I'll try to verify cam belt alignment by removing the left belt cover (I assume that's the point of the excercise?).
3) If TB checks out ok, get underneath the car and check the starter.
4) If starter is ok, have john check LH
5) If LH is ok, call shop, and prepare to PANIC.
6) When panic seizures stop, wrap up the car and sell as "mint condition showroom one owner garage queen" to remote buyer on e-bay (just kidding )!

I guess it's stil, theoretically, possible that the engine can in fact turn with a little leverage and muscle, but that the real culprit is a burned starter anyway? (I'm trying not to loose perspective here?)

Niels Jørgensen

Just occured to me that I could have missed the most obvious possible reason (and if so, I owe everyone a major apology - beer is on me):

What if the battery is "partly" collapsed. I've recharged and checked voltage, and that is good, but that's not the same as being able to support the power needed by the starter. If the battery can only hold a small fraction of the power needed by the starter it'll drain quickly, stopping the starter after a few turns, or?

Is this likely or even possible? If so I'll get a new battery and try cranking again (assuming the TB checks out).

... In either case, this board is worth its weight in gold... or something

UKKid35

It is with the plugs out

sweanders

Uhm.. I've had a bad battery in my car.. Twice.

The one that was in the car had a cell die totally and I got a new one that worked fine for a month. Then it worked every once in a while, it was possible to get the car restarted with the help of starter cable using a 993. When using a BMW M5 it was impossible to start it, don't know why but the M5 didn't seem to deliver enough juice to help start the car.

The last battery was working on all cells but didn't hold or accept new charge. I got a new one on warranty and the car has been happy ever since.