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Installed a PorKen clutch stop bracket to avoid over-centering the PP spring:
The headers did their best to make things a little more involved than a stock vehicle, Greg clearanced the late-model lower bellhousing cover:
Me, 10 feet off the deck in the car, checking for clutch operation. Nice view of Greg's shop:
End result? A total home run, the car is transformed. I got stuck in stop/start (mostly stop) traffic on the 55 heading home, it's like driving a stock 928. It's now a car I feel like I could toss the keys to anyone who's driven a 928 and they'd have no issue. And it's nice to be able to hammer it and not worry about clutch judder or slippage. So the stage is set, drivetrain-wise, for moar power!
... It's now a car I feel like I could toss the keys to anyone who's driven a 928 and they'd have no issue.
That's great! So we took the GT to mid-week getaway at a fancy lodge for our anniversary, not realizing it was a valet-only sort of place. "Uhmm, it's got a bitchy clutch" I said-- the line that usually works. "No problem", says the youngish valet-guy, as he effortlessly backs it into the premiere spot next to the entrance. And then he spent an hour the next day talking about how great the dog-leg gearbox was, the tragedy of so few manuals these days, the satisfaction of working on well-engineered cars, etc. With Sue, that is.
Hey Greg are there any plans to make these available for the '86 cars? Just got a new clutch put in this year (with your clutch hose) and fortunately for me the intermediate plate passed inspection (I took it off the road the second it began to slip and grandma'd it to the shop)...the engine has an exhaust, no cat, Porken's chips, the upgraded airbox temp sensor, your alternator, new coils and plenty of vacuum...so hopefully plenty of life for the standard clutch but I don't have plans to get rid of the car anytime soon so another clutch is absolutely in its future...
Yes. An alternative to the dual disc complexity and problems seems like a good idea, right?
I understand, completely...which is why I built this.
This clutch is so smooth, it's just incredible.
Just to be sure that Jim Corenman's was not just a fluke, we installed one into Rob's car yesterday and today.
Butter smooth. Rob's car didn't have the clutch "helper" spring, like Jim's. The "pedal pressure" is higher than a stock clutch, but not terrible (Jim did the math and it requires 50 pounds of force.)
Your car is the perfect candidate for one.....
exactly my "target market" for the dual disc version.
And I'm not convinced that a flywheel without crank trigger capability would be a good investment, for anyone that "needs" the dual disc version. I'd suggest that anyone who is making big horsepower might want to go ahead and use a 60 minus 2 flywheel....just in case you ever decide to put aftermarket injection on the car. Sure not going to hurt anything to have the "teeth" there...just in case. And the weight and cost savings will be very minimal.
I think all you would need to install one would be an '89 to '95 bell housing.....from either an automatic or manual car.
Interesting.
My bell housing in the car is this one from the '83 4.7L motor, but without the starter bracket, the clean and shiny flywheel from my 4.5L motor, and the powder coated lower bell housing cover that the hi-torque starter is mounted, which works great. The bell housing I'm using has the hole in the top, which is for the sensor that I'm not using.
Not this flywheel and the starter bracket is removed
Yes. An alternative to the dual disc complexity and problems seems like a good idea, right?
100% absolutely...your clutch hose bypassing the "U" part of the hydraulic path works a ton but definitely would love a longer lasting clutch next time...
Congratulations are in order to all who participated in this project.
I have been enjoying my 90 Outlaw GT with its stock engine for nearly twenty years and have been satisfied with making the car lighter rather than breaking into the GT motor to go for more power.
With a reliable super high performance clutch available, it makes the usability of stroker motor with big power realistic.
Congratulations are in order to all who participated in this project.
I have been enjoying my 90 Outlaw GT with its stock engine for nearly twenty years and have been satisfied with making the car lighter rather than breaking into the GT motor to go for more power.
With a reliable super high performance clutch available, it makes the usability of stroker motor with big power realistic.
Again, thanks for developing this product!
Dave.
^^^^^The sole reason we did this. Every other clutch that can hold big power chatters and is borderline miserable to drive.
My idea of a single disc replacement, for all the different models, was a complete afterthought.
I Need a replacement for the clutch in my 86.5 in the next few month. How can we Support your Engineering?
At the moment I Part my 86 donor car. The car was imported from the states and has a bend frame and a crushed oilpan.
^^^^^The sole reason we did this. Every other clutch that can hold big power chatters and is borderline miserable to drive.
That depends on how you define "big power". I installed a SPEC single disc clutch (model SP142) that is rated for 525 ft lbs of torque. It does not chatter and is easy to operate in any situation. I've put quite a few miles on it and am very happy with how it performs.
What you've put together is great, especially the prospect of having a brand new flywheel available.
That depends on how you define "big power". I installed a SPEC single disc clutch (model SP142) that is rated for 525 ft lbs of torque. It does not chatter and is easy to operate in any situation. I've put quite a few miles on it and am very happy with how it performs.
No chatter, even in reverse? Drive it in an LA or Oakland traffic jamb? Thst's fantastic!
Count yourself lucky. Not everyone, with that clutch. Is so fortunate.
Greg, I think that the problem is that some people think "more is always better" and buy a SPEC clutch that holds more power, but doesn't have sprung disks and/or has pucks instead of a disk. That's where the reports of chatter come from..clutches that are not really designed for street use. There are a lot of different levels and combinations of SPEC clutch components, and they aren't all intended for the same uses. I don't think that my experience is unusual given what I bought. If I had gotten something from their line that is more aggressive, than I am sure that it would be a different experience.
But, yes, even in reverse there is no chatter. I've even started it from a dead stop on a 19% grade going in reverse. And forward. And traffic in the DC area. And Atlanta rush hour. Aside from the usual extra work of shifting in stop and go traffic, the clutch is flawless in heavy traffic. Or hills, or any other situation that you can think of. It's what you would expect with the level and type of components that I bought. Just like I would definitely expect people who bought the stronger clutches from SPEC to experience chatter and more of an on/off feel.
I'm definitely not saying that your product isn't excellent or superior in comparison to SPEC options. I'm just sharing that there is an option out there that works very well if the motor's power output is under 525 ft lbs. I think that any of the SPEC products rated for more power will start to exhibit unfavorable characteristics. The higher the power rating, the worse the characteristics.
And yours is rated for 800 (organic) and 1,200 (ceramic), right? And both with no chattering or other unpleasant characteristics? That power rating is probably going to be impossible for a SPEC clutch to handle without chattering.
Another major factor is that you're including a brand new flywheel with your clutch. That's not available with a SPEC clutch or anywhere else.
If you had yours available when I bought my clutch last year, I probably would have bought yours instead.
Greg, I think that the problem is that some people think "more is always better" and buy a SPEC clutch that holds more power, but doesn't have sprung disks and/or has pucks instead of a disk. That's where the reports of chatter come from..clutches that are not really designed for street use. There are a lot of different levels and combinations of SPEC clutch components, and they aren't all intended for the same uses. I don't think that my experience is unusual given what I bought. If I had gotten something from their line that is more aggressive, than I am sure that it would be a different experience.
But, yes, even in reverse there is no chatter. I've even started it from a dead stop on a 19% grade going in reverse. And forward. And traffic in the DC area. And Atlanta rush hour. Aside from the usual extra work of shifting in stop and go traffic, the clutch is flawless in heavy traffic. Or hills, or any other situation that you can think of. It's what you would expect with the level and type of components that I bought. Just like I would definitely expect people who bought the stronger clutches from SPEC to experience chatter and more of an on/off feel.
I'm definitely not saying that your product isn't excellent or superior in comparison to SPEC options. I'm just sharing that there is an option out there that works very well if the motor's power output is under 525 ft lbs. I think that any of the SPEC products rated for more power will start to exhibit unfavorable characteristics. The higher the power rating, the worse the characteristics.
And yours is rated for 800 (organic) and 1,200 (ceramic), right? And both with no chattering or other unpleasant characteristics? That power rating is probably going to be impossible for a SPEC clutch to handle without chattering.
Another major factor is that you're including a brand new flywheel with your clutch. That's not available with a SPEC clutch or anywhere else.
If you had yours available when I bought my clutch last year, I probably would have bought yours instead.
I am convinced with metallic discs the Greg Brown clutch will chatter.
Not even new clutch discs are well balanced.
Åke
Last edited by Strosek Ultra; 12-27-2019 at 02:33 PM.
sorry for my noob question, but what do you guys mean with "chatter" ?
noise,vibrations ? or no smooth driving ?
It’s a mechanical noise emitted by the driveline that’s best described as metallic chatter. It’s generally brought on by upgraded clutch setups that can handle lots of power.
But even my 996 exhibited it with a new stock clutch because the spring damper in the original dual mass flywheel was wearing out. A new DMF and clutch (and replacing all other worn components) made her quiet once again.
12-21-2019, 02:08 AM
