'83 transmission replacement
02-25-2004, 11:39 PM
#1
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'83 transmission replacement
The transmission in the '83 is broken - not totally but it's slipping. We've been reading the manuals but there seem to be a few "holes" in the procedures. We've got a couple of questions.
1. We're scared to death to try and rebuild the transmission. We're thinking it's better to buy a rebuilt transmission than try to fix the one we've got. Any comments?
2. While we've got the transmission out what other work should we try to accomplish? We're planning on replacing all hoses but what else should we look for or check?
3. We're planning on pulling the torque tube and having Devek rebuild it. What about the torque converter? Is there a way to check that too?
4. Are there any cables that should be replaced or checked?
5. Should the transmission mounts be replaced?
6. Are there any tricks to marking all the components so that the reinstallation is easier? Or any tricks in general for this adventure?
7. Are there any sensors that we need to be aware of?
Thanks everyone for your help!
1. We're scared to death to try and rebuild the transmission. We're thinking it's better to buy a rebuilt transmission than try to fix the one we've got. Any comments?
2. While we've got the transmission out what other work should we try to accomplish? We're planning on replacing all hoses but what else should we look for or check?
3. We're planning on pulling the torque tube and having Devek rebuild it. What about the torque converter? Is there a way to check that too?
4. Are there any cables that should be replaced or checked?
5. Should the transmission mounts be replaced?
6. Are there any tricks to marking all the components so that the reinstallation is easier? Or any tricks in general for this adventure?
7. Are there any sensors that we need to be aware of?
Thanks everyone for your help!
02-26-2004, 04:04 AM
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Beth, I'm a bit fuzzy on Porsche specific answers in some cases, but I'll do my best to help out here just the same. Others with tons more 928 experience will no doubt be glad to add, augment or correct any of this. 
1) Be very afraid. Most automatics that I've seen on various cars require special tools and equipment to properly rebuild. Rebuilding that one vs buying another will most likely amount to a matter of preference/budget. If you're in a hurry, getting another tranny might be the ticket. OTOH it might be cheaper to rebuild yours.
2) After seeing the parts left over from my recent Loooong visit to the shop, I'd suggest you plan on replacing everything that's rubber under there. Trans mounts, exhaust hangers(unless that's all getting changed later), rubber mounts for the fuel pup, etc (if any)... basically anything rubber tha you have to touch down there.
3) With the stuff I've dealt with, domestic, Japanese Borg/Warner, etc. Torque converters are relatively cheap, on the order of $200-$300 for a nice one, 3-4x that much for race applications. It's a part I've always viewed as a WYAIT item that goes on the checklist. May be different for the 928... ?
4) Definitely check all of them.
5) Again, yes, unless they look brand new. Even if they do, check them closely.
6) Digital camera is good, as are copious notes and scribbles where needed. Maybe you can print out photos you've taken and mark them up as needed. Another good thing about this approach is you can then post them on a website, or have them handy to whip out when needed here.
7) Dunno, but beware of residual fuel system pressure, and disconnect the fuel pump right away, in addition to removing the battery ground strap.
Best of luck!
D
1) Be very afraid. Most automatics that I've seen on various cars require special tools and equipment to properly rebuild. Rebuilding that one vs buying another will most likely amount to a matter of preference/budget. If you're in a hurry, getting another tranny might be the ticket. OTOH it might be cheaper to rebuild yours.
2) After seeing the parts left over from my recent Loooong visit to the shop, I'd suggest you plan on replacing everything that's rubber under there. Trans mounts, exhaust hangers(unless that's all getting changed later), rubber mounts for the fuel pup, etc (if any)... basically anything rubber tha you have to touch down there.
3) With the stuff I've dealt with, domestic, Japanese Borg/Warner, etc. Torque converters are relatively cheap, on the order of $200-$300 for a nice one, 3-4x that much for race applications. It's a part I've always viewed as a WYAIT item that goes on the checklist. May be different for the 928... ?
4) Definitely check all of them.
5) Again, yes, unless they look brand new. Even if they do, check them closely.
6) Digital camera is good, as are copious notes and scribbles where needed. Maybe you can print out photos you've taken and mark them up as needed. Another good thing about this approach is you can then post them on a website, or have them handy to whip out when needed here.
7) Dunno, but beware of residual fuel system pressure, and disconnect the fuel pump right away, in addition to removing the battery ground strap.
Best of luck!
D
02-26-2004, 08:47 AM
#3
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OK, I did 2 of these this year so I think I can help you out here.
1. We're scared to death to try and rebuild the transmission. We're thinking it's better to buy a rebuilt transmission than try to fix the one we've got. Any comments?
These are very complicated, I would suggest buying a rebuilt and returning your core , or having yours rebuilt. the advantage of buying a rebuilt is that the turnaround time is shorter you wont have to wait for yours to be rebuilt.
2. While we've got the transmission out what other work should we try to accomplish? We're planning on replacing all hoses but what else should we look for or check?
definitly want to replace your CV booots while you are doing this, however be carefull and follow the manual or nichols site on taking your cv joint apart to replace the boot.
3. We're planning on pulling the torque tube and having Devek rebuild it. What about the torque converter? Is there a way to check that too?
The torque converter can be rebuilt , and should be if your transmission is slipping. check with who you are getting the transmission from to see if they offer this service , or if they include this with their rebuild.
EDIT: also if you send it off to be rebuilt make sure you mark both halves and that you get the same one back. Stall speeds are different for the 928 and the mercedes which is the same converter. so dont let them swap you for yours, tell them you want yours rebuilt and returned.
4. Are there any cables that should be replaced or checked?
There are some tricky adjustments that need made to the kickdown cable so the the transmission shifts properly, this is a matter of following the workshop manuals on adjustment of the kickdown cable.
5. Should the transmission mounts be replaced?
I would say yes because I stripped one of mine when putting it back into the car. The bolt that goes through the rear crossmember threads into the mount.
6. Are there any tricks to marking all the components so that the reinstallation is easier? Or any tricks in general for this adventure?
7. Are there any sensors that we need to be aware of?
Basically you are removing the whole rear suspension, but dont let that scare you, with air tools I could remove and replace it in about 6 hours with hand tools and not having done it before figure on spending a weekend removing everything. The first time I did it I used ziplock bags to put the nuts and bolts in and I marked the bags with a sharpie.
Basically you have
remove the exaust up to the catalytic converter. misc bolts and nuts
6 hex head screws that hold drive shafts to transmission each side.
3 nuts on the top of each shock tower.
2 bolts per side to hold the crossmember on.
1 adjustment bolt per side that holds the front swing arm
1 bolt per side that holds the drop link on.
1 bolt on either side of the transmission that goes from the crossmember to the frame
1 bolt either side of the transmission that bolts the crossmember to the transmission.
2 bolts on each of the backs of the brakes to hold the brake calipers on.
disconnect the parking brake cable .
Support the transmission with a chain to the anti sway bar.
the whole rear suspension will now come out in one piece.
remove the heat shielding under the car, lots of little sheet metal screws.
remove 2 brackets front and read that hold up heat shielding 4 bolts each.
turn crankshaft to get cinch bolt into position and remove this bolt.
Transmission will now be able to be removed.
Install in reverse order.
Really not that bad, I will be working on a third car with air tools in a few weeks , ill see if that 6 hour time works out right.
Workshop manual has a 4 or 5 page detailed breakdown of how to remove and replace the AT in the car, It is very helpfull the first time.
Good Luck
if you hit any snags just send me a pm , ill try to help the best I can.
Z
1. We're scared to death to try and rebuild the transmission. We're thinking it's better to buy a rebuilt transmission than try to fix the one we've got. Any comments?
These are very complicated, I would suggest buying a rebuilt and returning your core , or having yours rebuilt. the advantage of buying a rebuilt is that the turnaround time is shorter you wont have to wait for yours to be rebuilt.
2. While we've got the transmission out what other work should we try to accomplish? We're planning on replacing all hoses but what else should we look for or check?
definitly want to replace your CV booots while you are doing this, however be carefull and follow the manual or nichols site on taking your cv joint apart to replace the boot.
3. We're planning on pulling the torque tube and having Devek rebuild it. What about the torque converter? Is there a way to check that too?
The torque converter can be rebuilt , and should be if your transmission is slipping. check with who you are getting the transmission from to see if they offer this service , or if they include this with their rebuild.
EDIT: also if you send it off to be rebuilt make sure you mark both halves and that you get the same one back. Stall speeds are different for the 928 and the mercedes which is the same converter. so dont let them swap you for yours, tell them you want yours rebuilt and returned.
4. Are there any cables that should be replaced or checked?
There are some tricky adjustments that need made to the kickdown cable so the the transmission shifts properly, this is a matter of following the workshop manuals on adjustment of the kickdown cable.
5. Should the transmission mounts be replaced?
I would say yes because I stripped one of mine when putting it back into the car. The bolt that goes through the rear crossmember threads into the mount.
6. Are there any tricks to marking all the components so that the reinstallation is easier? Or any tricks in general for this adventure?
7. Are there any sensors that we need to be aware of?
Basically you are removing the whole rear suspension, but dont let that scare you, with air tools I could remove and replace it in about 6 hours with hand tools and not having done it before figure on spending a weekend removing everything. The first time I did it I used ziplock bags to put the nuts and bolts in and I marked the bags with a sharpie.
Basically you have
remove the exaust up to the catalytic converter. misc bolts and nuts
6 hex head screws that hold drive shafts to transmission each side.
3 nuts on the top of each shock tower.
2 bolts per side to hold the crossmember on.
1 adjustment bolt per side that holds the front swing arm
1 bolt per side that holds the drop link on.
1 bolt on either side of the transmission that goes from the crossmember to the frame
1 bolt either side of the transmission that bolts the crossmember to the transmission.
2 bolts on each of the backs of the brakes to hold the brake calipers on.
disconnect the parking brake cable .
Support the transmission with a chain to the anti sway bar.
the whole rear suspension will now come out in one piece.
remove the heat shielding under the car, lots of little sheet metal screws.
remove 2 brackets front and read that hold up heat shielding 4 bolts each.
turn crankshaft to get cinch bolt into position and remove this bolt.
Transmission will now be able to be removed.
Install in reverse order.
Really not that bad, I will be working on a third car with air tools in a few weeks , ill see if that 6 hour time works out right.
Workshop manual has a 4 or 5 page detailed breakdown of how to remove and replace the AT in the car, It is very helpfull the first time.
Good Luck
if you hit any snags just send me a pm , ill try to help the best I can.
Z
Last edited by Zandramus; 02-26-2004 at 11:53 AM.
02-26-2004, 01:17 PM
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We still have a few factory transmissions in the box for your year car. We are selling them for $1995 which is the same price as our aftermarket rebuilds. I will also include a rebuilt torque tube at no extra charge.
02-26-2004, 03:15 PM
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Well, I've been through the transmission, torque tube and the driver's side prop shaft. The first two were done by a shop and I did the propshaft rebuild myself. I did paticipate in the transmission & TT removal/rebuild processes, so I will make a few comments from my experience.
As stated earlier, you essentially have to remove the entire drive system from the flywheel back. Lots of big bolts and heavy components involved here. Personally, I cannot see have to do this without a vehicle lift. While technically possible will the car on jack stands, it would be be very difficult and potentially physically dangerous...not to mention a PITA.
I would consider finding a transmission shop that has experience in rebuild and testing MB transmissions. Look for knowledge of how they work and references. I found just such a place in my small corner of the world...mentioned all the "right" jargon and approach that transmission guru Steve Cattaneo advised me to expect. The guy I found suggested we check the transmission pressure settings before doing anything further...a very good sign.
You can have any competent shop R&R the transmission and TT...you might even find a transmission shop that will do this part too. Most transmission shops, however, like to work with a mechanic shop to do the mechanical work.
My rubber components were in very good shape, but I agree this is a good time to replace them...you really do not want to have to do this again. Take a good look at the vacuum and transmission cooler lines as well. This is a very good time to fix/renew any of the worn components in the console shifter mechanism.
Make sure that the TC bearings are replaced at the same time...they came in the transmission rebuild kit in my case.
Flush the transmission fluid cooler while you are in there.
The WSM manual has a very good description of the R&R...I gathered some some additional info on the transmission R&R and on the TT rebuild. Also have a procedure for rebuilding the prop shafts If you want this stuff, just PM me.
I think Mark Anderson's offer deserves some consideration. The price sounds reasonable and all you would need is a place to do the swap.
Regards,
SteveCo in St. John's
As stated earlier, you essentially have to remove the entire drive system from the flywheel back. Lots of big bolts and heavy components involved here. Personally, I cannot see have to do this without a vehicle lift. While technically possible will the car on jack stands, it would be be very difficult and potentially physically dangerous...not to mention a PITA.
I would consider finding a transmission shop that has experience in rebuild and testing MB transmissions. Look for knowledge of how they work and references. I found just such a place in my small corner of the world...mentioned all the "right" jargon and approach that transmission guru Steve Cattaneo advised me to expect. The guy I found suggested we check the transmission pressure settings before doing anything further...a very good sign.
You can have any competent shop R&R the transmission and TT...you might even find a transmission shop that will do this part too. Most transmission shops, however, like to work with a mechanic shop to do the mechanical work.
My rubber components were in very good shape, but I agree this is a good time to replace them...you really do not want to have to do this again. Take a good look at the vacuum and transmission cooler lines as well. This is a very good time to fix/renew any of the worn components in the console shifter mechanism.
Make sure that the TC bearings are replaced at the same time...they came in the transmission rebuild kit in my case.
Flush the transmission fluid cooler while you are in there.
The WSM manual has a very good description of the R&R...I gathered some some additional info on the transmission R&R and on the TT rebuild. Also have a procedure for rebuilding the prop shafts If you want this stuff, just PM me.
I think Mark Anderson's offer deserves some consideration. The price sounds reasonable and all you would need is a place to do the swap.
Regards,
SteveCo in St. John's
02-26-2004, 03:47 PM
#7
Originally posted by mark anderson
We still have a few factory transmissions in the box for your year car. We are selling them for $1995 which is the same price as our aftermarket rebuilds. I will also include a rebuilt torque tube at no extra charge.
We still have a few factory transmissions in the box for your year car. We are selling them for $1995 which is the same price as our aftermarket rebuilds. I will also include a rebuilt torque tube at no extra charge.
*shocked* *Silence* You mean I parted my 81 out because its used transmission, which I paid 1500 dollars for, PLUS 350 for the USED torque tube, BLEW up after a month or two of driving it... and I could have just....
I feel sick.
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02-26-2004, 03:54 PM
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LOL Brendan..
Steve, I managed both of mine supported at 4 points on good jackstands, I wouldnt hesitate to recomend this to any do it yourselfer. Just get your car up in the air enough to work under it comfortably, I probably had the frame about 2 to 2 1/2 feet off the ground.
Funnny thing about the 928 is that the car is stiff enough to support the 4th corner without a jack under it. I can still remember taking mine off the jacks and the first one that came out didnt lower the car it just stayed off the ground on that corner unsupported untill i took the other jack in the front out from under it and then the whole front end lowered from the drivers side jack point. This is a very stiff car, I have never seen an american car I owned be able to do this.
Z
Steve, I managed both of mine supported at 4 points on good jackstands, I wouldnt hesitate to recomend this to any do it yourselfer. Just get your car up in the air enough to work under it comfortably, I probably had the frame about 2 to 2 1/2 feet off the ground.
Funnny thing about the 928 is that the car is stiff enough to support the 4th corner without a jack under it. I can still remember taking mine off the jacks and the first one that came out didnt lower the car it just stayed off the ground on that corner unsupported untill i took the other jack in the front out from under it and then the whole front end lowered from the drivers side jack point. This is a very stiff car, I have never seen an american car I owned be able to do this.
Z
02-26-2004, 04:01 PM
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*shocked* *Silence* You mean I parted my 81 out because its used transmission, which I paid 1500 dollars for, PLUS 350 for the USED torque tube, BLEW up after a month or two of driving it... and I could have just...."
Not to pour salt in your wound but had you bought them us they would have been covered under warranty. Sometimes what looks to be the cheapest is not.
Not to pour salt in your wound but had you bought them us they would have been covered under warranty. Sometimes what looks to be the cheapest is not.
02-26-2004, 04:24 PM
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Zandramus;
I would definitely yeild to your direct experience in this regard. I just saw 4 big mechanics wrestle with my car. I agree that it could be done as per your experience.
Regards,
SteveCo
I would definitely yeild to your direct experience in this regard. I just saw 4 big mechanics wrestle with my car. I agree that it could be done as per your experience.
Regards,
SteveCo
02-26-2004, 04:42 PM
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I just saw 4 big mechanics wrestle with my car
LOL, Steve
Yes I thought it all through first and made up the porsche recomended tools ie the chains and the transmission jack attachmentI made from some steel I had laying around welded it up and bolted it to my floor jack. I agree not for the light of heart but if you have ever pulled a motor, this job is much easier. Actually the worst I ever ran into was a motor swap on an 83 cadilac Eldorado inline v8 with front wheel drive Transmission kind of did a U turn to get to teh output shafts all in teh front engine bay. ... now that was not for beginners LOL
also being on a lift I can see would have made the rear suspension hard to take out where on stands I just put a floor jack under it and lowered it and pulled it away on the jack.
Z
LOL, Steve
Yes I thought it all through first and made up the porsche recomended tools ie the chains and the transmission jack attachmentI made from some steel I had laying around welded it up and bolted it to my floor jack. I agree not for the light of heart but if you have ever pulled a motor, this job is much easier. Actually the worst I ever ran into was a motor swap on an 83 cadilac Eldorado inline v8 with front wheel drive Transmission kind of did a U turn to get to teh output shafts all in teh front engine bay. ... now that was not for beginners LOL
also being on a lift I can see would have made the rear suspension hard to take out where on stands I just put a floor jack under it and lowered it and pulled it away on the jack.
Z
02-26-2004, 04:49 PM
#13
Originally posted by mark anderson
*shocked* *Silence* You mean I parted my 81 out because its used transmission, which I paid 1500 dollars for, PLUS 350 for the USED torque tube, BLEW up after a month or two of driving it... and I could have just...."
Not to pour salt in your wound but had you bought them us they would have been covered under warranty. Sometimes what looks to be the cheapest is not.
*shocked* *Silence* You mean I parted my 81 out because its used transmission, which I paid 1500 dollars for, PLUS 350 for the USED torque tube, BLEW up after a month or two of driving it... and I could have just...."
Not to pour salt in your wound but had you bought them us they would have been covered under warranty. Sometimes what looks to be the cheapest is not.
Well, it had an LSD, so it looked good at the time. I would have much rather had a working transmission then an LSD on hindsight, however.
Thats okay. It, as your man Jim says, was taking away my concentration from my true ideal, the 89S4.
I've recovered. Now I can't decide if I want a 78 5spd for a kick around car for me, and an 83-85 auto for Clare, or maybe a 78 5spd for me and like a 90 or 91 Auto for Clare.
But I have strayed, and I will stray no more Mark.
02-26-2004, 05:48 PM
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The labor involved is the biggest reason to buy a new or rebuilt transmission.
If you rebuild it yourself, and get it back in the car, and something is wrong,
you have to pull the whole thing out again...
That was one of the nightmares on my car.
The shop pulled it, and sent it out to a less than reputable builder.
After picking it up, a few miles later, all the fluid dumped out of it,
because some seals and o-rings blew out.
So it had to come out.
Then my old shop tried rebuilding it themselves.
But the loss of fluid had thrashed the torque converter.
So when I got the car back, it was not accelerating properly, etc... Very slow...
So out the transmission came yet again.
The final, successful rebuild was done by a place that does Mercedes transmissions.
But because of all the labor involved, and it was a warranteed repair, my shop was
not keen on these continual removals, and it ended up in the shop for way too long,
because they just did not want to deal with the hassle.
If those "in the box" transmissions were available to me back then,
I would have taken one in a heartbeat, just to save the hassle of
the transmission having to go in and out until it was done right.
It seems that a "normal" transmission shop did not know what to do.
And a 928 specialty shop also did not do it right.
So it is very likely that a shadetree mechanic could make some mistakes as well.
So if you can get one that is already rebuilt, or new, then go for it.
It'll be worth the extra $$$ in the long run.
If you rebuild it yourself, and get it back in the car, and something is wrong,
you have to pull the whole thing out again...
That was one of the nightmares on my car.
The shop pulled it, and sent it out to a less than reputable builder.
After picking it up, a few miles later, all the fluid dumped out of it,
because some seals and o-rings blew out.
So it had to come out.
Then my old shop tried rebuilding it themselves.
But the loss of fluid had thrashed the torque converter.
So when I got the car back, it was not accelerating properly, etc... Very slow...
So out the transmission came yet again.
The final, successful rebuild was done by a place that does Mercedes transmissions.
But because of all the labor involved, and it was a warranteed repair, my shop was
not keen on these continual removals, and it ended up in the shop for way too long,
because they just did not want to deal with the hassle.
If those "in the box" transmissions were available to me back then,
I would have taken one in a heartbeat, just to save the hassle of
the transmission having to go in and out until it was done right.
It seems that a "normal" transmission shop did not know what to do.
And a 928 specialty shop also did not do it right.
So it is very likely that a shadetree mechanic could make some mistakes as well.
So if you can get one that is already rebuilt, or new, then go for it.
It'll be worth the extra $$$ in the long run.
02-26-2004, 10:34 PM
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Buy that transmission from mark that is a great deal. The number one cause of after rebuilt transmission problems is not flushing the transmission cooler lines and trans. cooler in the radiator. Make sure you flush the cooler lines.
VERY INPORTANT.
When you remove the torque tube from the front bell housing (engine) also remove the 6 bolts that retain the front drive plate to the flywheel along with the clamping bolt for the drive shaft.
INSTALLSTION
Tighten the front 6 drive plate to 26ft.lbs FRIST then tighten the clamping screw to 62ft. lbs next. ONLY, AFTER you have installed and bolted the transmission and torque tube in place. This procedure will ensure the right running clearance for the CRANK THRUST BEARING.
VERY INPORTANT.
When you remove the torque tube from the front bell housing (engine) also remove the 6 bolts that retain the front drive plate to the flywheel along with the clamping bolt for the drive shaft.
INSTALLSTION
Tighten the front 6 drive plate to 26ft.lbs FRIST then tighten the clamping screw to 62ft. lbs next. ONLY, AFTER you have installed and bolted the transmission and torque tube in place. This procedure will ensure the right running clearance for the CRANK THRUST BEARING.