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Fred, unfortuntely my agent was supposed to move the car from a collector car policy to a regular policy about a month ago. It sounds like I landed somewhere in the middle.....but no rental car coverage. I wasn't so happy about that when I found out. Luckily I have a back up
Bummer! Still, the principals of how to deal with insurance companies still apply- go get them! Many people are simply intimidated by them and the Insurance companies know this.
Multiple issues here....and the car is not the biggest one.IF you called your agent and requested to change the coverage to collector car/antique/assigned value,and they did not,you can sue them for errors and admissioms.They have insurance coverage for this type of stuff.CYA policy for insurance agents.
Now,on to the car.First you fight for the highest value you can get.Then fight a little more.After a while,it will get bumped up to a "higher" authority person who has room for more negotiation on final pay out.
Then you do the buyback.It is usually total amount,less deductible,less the buy back valuation.
The age of the vehicle and the area of damage are what determine the percentage that they use. With front end damage on older vehicles,it is usually in the 7.5 to 10% of total value.Then you bring up the fact that no other party was involved,you tow/recovered vehicle yourself and stored it yourself,so they incured no additional expense.
I'll go over the latest oneI had to do in the family fleet.
Guy cuts off wife in her beloved 1984 MB 300 diesel.She hit the brakes and jams car against jersey wall in a construction zone.I get the phone call and go handle the issue.I drove car home,as it had no mechanical damage.I fought ins co initial valuation of 1750 dollars and got them up to 4750.Then I told them I was going to retain vehicle,and started that negotiation,and got them down to 5% due to age and mileage. I recieved a check for 4k,bought 2 used doors from pick and pull for 65 dollars and sent it over to my paint guy,who still has a 1/2 pint of unreduced paint from when we did the cosmetic restoration 5 years ago.Car back on the road for a total of 800 dollars
With front end damage on older vehicles,it is usually in the 7.5 to 10% of total value.Then you bring up the fact that no other party was involved,you tow/recovered vehicle yourself and stored it yourself,so they incured no additional expense.
It hasn't been that low of a percentage for a while now, at least with the big insurance companies.
Never even a whisper of totaling the car, title is still clean. Has nothing to do with where the damage was (yes I discussed this with the appraiser since my last second maneuver kept the deer off the nose). He simply said they value the car in the $10 - $15 range, since the damage is well under 80% no need to even consider totaling the car.
The damage doesn't seem like much on my car, by the time he was done all rubber was to be replaced in the door / window along with a new window (he saw a tiny scratch). Rear view mirror, 1/4 window rubber, new bumper beading, new side trim, have the pin stripe matched etc... I couldn't believe how thorough the inspection was and I was getting prepared for a totaled car and buy back routine.
I asked him about the 80% number since I was used to dealing with 20% or under in such situations. He went into great details about the shift in the industry and in some cases they'll even go to 90%.
""Quote""
Originally Posted by 928FIXER
With front end damage on older vehicles,it is usually in the 7.5 to 10% of total value.Then you bring up the fact that no other party was involved,you tow/recovered vehicle yourself and stored it yourself,so they incurred no additional expense.
It hasn't been that low of a percentage for a while now, at least with the bigger insurance compenies.""
I was given that number by the adjuster that came out to inspect the vehicle.It had to do with age.Not a lot of market for 35 yeay old 600K cars I was looking over his shoulder and could see that the chart went as high as 40% on rear Q/panel hits that are late model,to 5% buy back on late model burn jobs.He was a very good adjuster,and very impressed with the vehicle and its overall condition.
These things can vary with every insurance company. Maybe I shouldn't have said "a while" in my post. But this wasn't a new thing in 2017 and here we are two years later, and my adjuster made it sound like this has been the way they did business for quite a few years now. Maybe State Farm was ahead of the curve.
My cousin who owns a State Farm Franchise, a good friend who's family owns an Allstate franchise, my other cousin been with the automotive sector of American Express's insurance division for 30+ years, and two independent insurance agents in my Euro C&C group all confirmed the same information.
Yes, I did place a call to all of them after I received my insurance settlement. I wasn't looking to have it totaled and paid out, I was just curious about this change since I too had always worked with the 20% or under number.
They said the percentage drops the newer the car is.
One of them made a "Not on record" comment, this change came about to fight insurance fraud. People sitting on old cars that are worth more totaled with an insurance claim vs realistic retail value.
Again, the numbers on my 80 back that up. There are many resources out there to look up estimated value on collector cars.
Haggerity has my 1980 at "average" of $18,500
NADA Classic lists low retail at $9,800. Average is $15,200
The numbers make sense form an actuarial standpoint. Was my 1980 worth $10k before I hit the deer? Not in the mechanical condition that it was in, but physically the body was perfect and interior better than most with 60k on the odo. So financially I would have come out ahead having them total the car, take it away and hand me a check for the average evaluation.
My adjuster knew his stuff too, he came with 928 International's web-page already open on his tablet to look up any parts that were NLA or whatever on the new retail side and the Porsche PET program. He looked up every single part number and added anything I suggested as a concert (like the metal trim piece along the bottom of the door window).
Your story simply reinforces not all insurance companies operate the same and why I stick with State Farm.
The economics of what determines a total loss varies by location. In my state, there are laws about the total loss threshold. The laws are meant to protect the consumer and any potential lien holder(s). The insurance company can and will sometimes push for a car to be settled as a total loss below this threshold, actually. From their perspective, they worry that supplemental repair requests could push their payouts to over 70%. Many times, they will ask that we 'lock' our estimates at an agreed price when it gets this close.
Very good point - state by state things can be vastly different.
It's actually kind of scary how many states have little to no such protection in situations like this. Take the criteria to "total" a car or even give them a salvage title. I talk about this all the time with friends / family shopping for used cars. Dealers do not have to disclose any damage if the title is clear (even if they bought it damaged and did the repair work). Shopping at insurance auto auctions which I've done, it's scary how much damage is allowed before some cars are given a salvage title.
Two cars sawed in half to make one car? Clean title, clean carfax if the front end of the car with the VIN was never tagged salvage or reported to Carfax. I've seen this scenario far too many times.
It stinks that the car might have just been moved from a collector policy to a regular one. The collector policy was probably setup for agreed value vs book value and agreed value on an OB 928 that looks as nice as yours could have been in the $20s or more vs book value which is probably in the $6k range. That hurts two ways - one in that if they had to exceed 70-75% of the Agreed Value before they could total it, no way you're anywhere near that vs 70-75% of the book value, which you could be close to since on paper a 40 year old 928 isn't worth much.
I have an Agreed Value policy on all my cars through Grundy.
Worst case is they total it and you buy it back as that doesn't look bad at all and I'm sure you can find a fender. I have some of those lights (corner and side marker) from my '79 I will sell you for cheap if you decide to go that route.
Personally I would be tempted to just fix it and keep the insurance company out of it. That's mostly because I HATE dealing with insurance companies. But also, I think the repair might be pretty inexpensive.
Personally I would be tempted to just fix it and keep the insurance company out of it. That's mostly because I HATE dealing with insurance companies. But also, I think the repair might be pretty inexpensive.
Kevin,
I have a similar story to Kiln Red. In Texas, apparently there are provisions for the max amount that can be paid with the title branded as salvage. After a collision in the Stepson (my 84 Euro), the payment exceeded that max?? amount.
I got a very nice check and no branding of the title.
We really must discuss this at or after breakfast.
Do not discuss this too much in depth on line. You just never know who might be monitoring these discussions. You don't want to implicate yourself or give your opposition any idea about your thoughts prior to finalizing negotiations.
10-04-2019, 04:20 AM
